Time Lag Switch

[securespark]

I'm looking for an accessory that may not exist for a very demanding client.

My MIL would like the switch on the outside of the downstairs loo swapped for a switch that:

You can press to turn the toilet light/fan on.

Has an indicator light to show it is on.

You can press to turn the toilet light/fan off.

Has a timer that will switch off if you forget.

I've looked at a few, but not found anything quite like that. I can't remember if there is a N at the switch position, but understand that these switches will need one.

 

[Mottie]

Might be difficult as you may have to set them up each time you use it. How about a switch with a neon indicator?

Edit: MySister has/had a Movement detector on the ceiling that switched the light and fan on in her downstairs bathroom. That, combined with a fan with a timer should give you what you want.

something like this:

https://www.lightingstyles.co.uk/pir-sensor---replaces-wall-switch

 

[securespark]

Cheers. Trouble is, the switch is on the outside.

 

[Mottie]

Cheers. Trouble is, the switch is on the outside.

Could you not disconnect that from the ceiling rose and take a L/N from that to a ceiling mounted pir switch? Might be easier than trying to get a neutral to the wall switch.

 

[ETAF]

I dont think you can turn this off - but it will go off after 10-20mins depending on setting anyway
https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/pro...4fzEHkxxRiKZ63BXa3RoCLWQQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[JohnW2]

You can press to turn the toilet light/fan on.
Has an indicator light to show it is on.
You can press to turn the toilet light/fan off.
Has a timer that will switch off if you forget.

My goodness, that's a big ask, and I somehow doubt that you'll find anything off-the-shelf that would tick all those boxes. The switch mentioned by ETAP probably gets much of the way but, as he/she says, I presume one could not switch it off before the end of the timed period (but would that really matter?).

My first reaction was to think very laterally, but in a way that would probably require some re-wiring, and certainly modification of a fan, and some 'bespoke' components! - but, for what it's worth ....

If it is (or could be) a timer fan, then (assuming that it's timer module could cope with the small additional load of an LED light), then one could 'modify' it such that the light was supplied by the output of the timer module. Triggering the timer would then result in both light and fan coming on for the period of time determined by the timer module.

That 'triggering' could be done by a momentary action press switch supplying power to the S/L of the fan. Again, it's the 'switching off' that might be a problem. I haven't yet experimented to see, but it's quite possible that momentarily interrupting the permanent live to the fan timer will put it into it[s 'off state'- and, if that's the case, that could be achieved with a second ('push to break') momentary-action press switch. The two press switches plus a neon could probably be done with grid modules (or with individual components, a blank faceplate and a drill ).

... but I imagine you are hoping for a much simpler solution than that

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I'm looking for an accessory that may not exist for a very demanding client.

My MIL would like the switch on the outside of the downstairs loo swapped for a switch that:

You can press to turn the toilet light/fan on.

Has an indicator light to show it is on.

You can press to turn the toilet light/fan off.

Has a timer that will switch off if you forget.

I've looked at a few, but not found anything quite like that. I can't remember if there is a N at the switch position, but understand that these switches will need one.

All that's needed is a timer to give a maximum on time, but this will not be a 'standard switch'.

Mottie has probably come up with the best answer, my daughter has recently fitted them in all 3 toilets/bathrooms for 3 sons... I wonder is anyone makes a PIR bulb?


EDIT: such as page 3 of: https://assets.omron.eu/downloads/d...3y-series_solid-state_timers_datasheet_en.pdf
To get a light on the switch with no neutral, series LED modules are available, it just means 3V is lost for the load.

 

[JohnW2]

... My first reaction was to think very laterally, but in a way that would probably require some re-wiring, and certainly modification of a fan, and some 'bespoke' components! - but, for what it's worth ....

When I came to draw it, I realised that if one wanted to have the indicator (neon or whatever) one would need 4C (+E, to be regs-compliant!) cable to the switch box.

However, I then realised that if one put an electronic timer module (maybe even one stolen from, or intended for, a timer fan!) in the switch box, one would only need 2-core (+E !) cable to/from the switch box, and wouldn't need a time fan - something like the below, although I'm sure you would prefer a simpler, essentially off-the-shelf, solution (and no 're-wiring') ....

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Could you not disconnect that from the ceiling rose and take a L/N from that to a ceiling mounted pir switch? Might be easier than trying to get a neutral to the wall switch.

The install is a PITA.

The fitting is a small flu strip, above a mirror over the sink.

The switch is outside in the hall.

MiL has had the hall and loo painted.

I can't remember exactly, but I think there is a N at the switch outside, which is why I'm leaning towards a time lag switch, using the neutral for the indicator.

 

[JohnW2]

... I can't remember exactly, but I think there is a N at the switch outside, which is why I'm leaning towards a time lag switch, using the neutral for the indicator.

Fair enough - but as I and others have said, the one of your (or your MIL's!) requirements that is unlikely to be saisfied by any sort of off-the-shelf time-lag switch is the ability to switch off the light/fan before the timed period has ended - hence my suggestions (if you/she really needs that 'Off' facility, which would not seem, to me, to be particularly crucial)

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Thanks, everyone. MiL is adamant there should be a switch out there with her name on it.

Maybe I can get away with omitting clause 3.

So, a timer switch that illuminates when on?

 

[securespark]

I'm still looking! Might try RS.

 

[securespark]

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/light-switches/7191888

Dear, but seems to be what I need.

Many have a locator light. This one comes on during the timed period.

It will also switch off when you press the button again.

I just need to make sure a neutral is available at the switch.

And I will need a spacer as the unit is 23mm deep and from memory, the back box is 25mm.

 

[sparkwright]

What about a switch with neon/led outside the room, AND a pir in the room?

The switch would isolate the pir.

 

[john4703]

Could you not disconnect that from the ceiling rose and take a L/N from that to a ceiling mounted pir switch? Might be easier than trying to get a neutral to the wall switch.

I agree, I've got a PIR in my bathroom which is really handy. My wife struggles to walk so uses a Zimmer, she simply goes into the bathroom and the light comes on.