TO PAY OR NOT TO PAY....?

[GarethE]

....now that really is the question.

I recently called out a heating engineer (£55 per hour plus VAT) who attended to our faulty boiler but couldn't find the fault.

The total cost was £130 (which I paid).

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=43259
I would say that you should not have paid him anything if he did not fix the boiler !!!
...
Tony Glazier

What do you think? Would you have paid up (after all, the chap did spend a couple of hours looking)

Would be interested to hear the opinions & experiences of the Professionals and "coldies" out there...

 

[bones001]

if he cannot find the fault in two hours he has no right to be charging £55 an hour for his services he is obviously **** at his job

 

[chrishutt]

You need to clarify these points before you enter into a contract. I'm always amazed at how rarely people ask me what I charge before calling me out. The same people wouldn't dream of buying a product without checking the price, an when it comes to petrol they're probably worrying about the odd penny more or less per litre.

 

[GarethE]

You need to clarify these points before you enter into a contract. I'm always amazed at how rarely people ask me what I charge before calling me out. The same people wouldn't dream of buying a product without checking the price, an when it comes to petrol they're probably worrying about the odd penny more or less per litre.

Chris,
Top advice. I will definitely ask more questions next time (live & learn).
I was quoted no call-out charge but £55 per hour for work (and, of course, you don't know in advance how long someone will take - or if a fix can be found).
Mind you, I probably won't offer a cup of tea next time (how much did the drinking time cost me, I wonder)!
Gareth

 

[DP]

If I am offered a drink, I drink while I am working. I do not stop to do it.

WRT charging, If an engineer is called to carry out repairs and has quoted you a price upfront, I see no reason why he should not be paid if boiler fails to malfuntion during the visit.

If on the other hand the engineer cannot fix a fault that is present, I see no reason why he should make a charge for his services.

One of my (new) clients had three different engineers look at his boiler (Vaillant Sine 18). Each one charged him around £80 pounds to visit and tell hem boiler could not be fixed. The client got my details from the forums. Fault was fixed and boiler is working now. And I got paid.

 

[chrishutt]

Don't be taken in by the no call-out charge claim. All businesses have to make allowance for travelling time and administrative costs which are the same for a job of 5 minutes or 5 hours.

I charge a call-out charge of £24 and an hourly charge of £24, so 1 hour is £48 and 2 hours £72, plus any materials of course. I think this is the fairest way of charging, but many customers feel that a call-out charge is somehow unfair (for them I'm willing to charge just an hourly rate - of £48 ).

As for no fix - no fee, I don't think that really arises since I am almost always able to diagnose the problem. It's then up to the customer to decide if they want me to proceed with a repair.

 

[GarethE]

Thanks for your views DP - very interesting.

...I see no reason why he should not be paid if boiler fails to malfuntion during the visit....

It did continue to malfunction during the visit...

 

[corgiman]

I agree with chris

most of the time we arrive on site find out whats the problem then go on the fixed costs asap, better for us and better for the client.

As for charging you for not fixing the boiler, did they recommend what could and should be done to fix it or did they just throw in the towel cop they filthy lucre and scarper?

 

[ChrisR]

I know it's not stricty relevant to the discussion but what sort of fault was it? And he surely expressed some sort of opinion about what it was?

Sometimes a combi will, say, work 9 times in a row, and on the 10th, for no apparent reason, go to lockout, with no fault codes. I remember a GW Swiftflow which did exactly that - (and gave poor HW and made a racket from the waterways' scale.) I could guess that a pcb might have been faulty (there are 3 iirc), but that would have cost a lot to try. GW technical were no help.
If they can't diagnose it for certain, why should I be expected to! So the answer was an estimate for a lot of money for parts, and descaling, which I knew the customer wouldn't go ahead with.

Under those circumstances, why shouldn't payment be made for the time?

I'm sure I was there two hours, trying to provoke the fault and monitor it for diagnosis . I asked for and got paid for 1 hour - not ideal for anyone, but also nobody's fault?

 

[Paul Barker]

I agree with you there Chris.

If people will isnsist on having such troublesome equipment and manufacturers insist on making it, why should they take no share in the blame?

They might say they didn';t choose to have troublesome equipment. Well if they ever had my sales patter they would be empowered to make an informed choice. Then the responsibility for such problems would lie squarelky with them and the manufacturers.

 

[GarethE]

did they recommend what could and should be done to fix it or did they just throw in the towel cop they filthy lucre and scarper?

The symptoms sounded like a suspect divertor valve or microswitch (only get DHW when burner already alight for CH) so he arrived, checked this (it was all in working order) so was a bit stumped.

what sort of fault was it? And he surely expressed some sort of opinion about what it was?

The fault is still ongoing. He thought possibly PCB - but that you can't get them any more (old boiler) so suggested replacing the boiler.
I'm not ready to write it off and buy a new boiler without knowing what's wrong (when maybe a £20 part will fix it).
(it's here if you're up for a challenge: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=43259 )


But really, my point was a general one - about whether payment should be made if the fault is not fixed - I see it's not as simple as that.

I guess it's a case of whether you think you've got your money's worth.

 

[Paul Barker]

Why not go with one of those magicians offering a guaranteed fix?

 

[GarethE]

Paul, ...for a fixed price?

.....Under those circumstances, why shouldn't payment be made for the time?

Chris, I agree, I'm not saying anyone should give their time FOC.

It's hard for the customer though - to pay for an engineer's time when they don't get to the bottom of the fault (again, a value-for-money thing).

Could you put yourself in a similar position - if you had a problem with your car or computer or something (something you can't fix yourself - forgive my assumptions) - so you check it in for repair, get a charge but the problem is not fixed.

Would you feel annoyed

 

[Paul Barker]

But uit happens all the time with cars anbd vans, you take it to them they make you pay a few hundred, it's just as bad, you take it to another pay another few hundred, it's as bad or worse.

Yes guaranteed fix at set price is on offer, search Agile's posts, BAxiheatteam offer it on their boilers, British gas do a scheme for their customers, I believe there are other idiots.

 

[ChrisR]

Could you put yourself in a similar position - if you had a problem with your car or computer or something (something you can't fix yourself - forgive my assumptions) - so you check it in for repair, get a charge but the problem is not fixed.

But you are getting the benefit of informed advice, and if not a 100% diagnosis, better information on which to decide what to do next.

Ever had a doctor say ..."more tests"? I expect they get paid for doing them all even if not conclusive!