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Tripping Circuit Board (constant)

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by SkyDave, 30 Oct 2010.

  1. SkyDave

    SkyDave

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    Hi all,
    I’m looking for some advice on an electricity problem I’m having and hope to get your opinions before I get someone out who’s going to suck air through his teeth and the bend me over!!

    I’m not a spark of any kind so some of the terminology may be off a little but here goes.

    Some years back, we had a new kitchen fitted with an all in price, in other words, they’ll do all the sparks and gas for me.

    All seemed to go OK until a couple of years later when we came to upgrade the cooker. When the fitters swapped the cooker over, it became apparent that the kitchen fitters hadn’t moved the cooker switch and worse is that the cable was still behind the wall where the cooker used to be and nowhere near where the cooker is now. They had however, disconnected the cooker cable from the MCB and replaced it with the two wires that run my sockets ring main. Essentially, my range electric cooker was running on the sockets ring and not its own RCD.

    Got the kitchen company back who re- ran the cooker cable to its rightful place.

    All seemed fine until I came to change a standard socket for a decorative one. Switched the sockets off at the MCB and……nothing. Everything stayed on. On closer inspection, the two cables that supply my sockets are plugged into my shower RCD and cooker RCD. Nothing was in the sockets RCD.

    I disco’d the MCB from the supply and put the socket cables in their rightful RCD but it trips when you switch anything on. Lamp, phone charger…….anything. I’ve been around the house and switched everything off and removed the plug and the RCD doesn’t trip. Plug one thing in and switch it on and it pops.

    Now there are two wire’s that go into the RCD, one for upstairs and one for downstairs (I presume). The same problem occurs whether either is put in alternately or both cables are put in together.

    I’ve contacted the kitchen company again, but unfortunately they’ve gone bump (probably for dodgy workmanship).

    I’ve since been and bought a new RCD for the sockets and it does the same thing. (The RCD is a HAGER ADA 932U B32).

    My house is about 15-20 years old and the only other alterations done to the sparks were some spurs from the kitchen sockets for the conservatory we had built BEFORE we had the kitchen done. No problems up to the point of the kitchen refurb’.

    I’d be grateful for any ideas.
     
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  3. Wontdothatagain

    Wontdothatagain

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    A picture of your fuse board would help a lot. MAKE SURE IT IS TURNED OFF AT THE MAIN SWITCH FIRST, BEFORE REMOVING THE COVER AND EVEN THEN, PROCEDE WITH CAUTION
     
  4. Adam_151

    Adam_151

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    I'm struggling a bit with reading that, you seem to use the terms RCD and MCB interchangeably or with confusion, for reference an RCD will have a test button and normally be at least 2 modues wide, whereas an MCB will have no test button and normally be one module wide

    That said, it sounds like you have tried to move a circuit from the none rcd side of the board to the rcd side, without moving the neutrals to the correct neutral rail. It also sounds like the kitchen fitters have bodged stuff up somewhat and it might be worth investing in a perioidic inspection to highlight issues.

    Oh, and socket outlets are typically wired on a ring final, which is as it sounds one big ring of cable, leaving the board, hitting every point and returning to the board, (normally) uses 2.5mm cable and is protected by a 30/32 breaker. Its important that it hasn't enede up split into two radial circuits by the kitchen fitter, because they would be at risk of overload if it has
     
  5. Wontdothatagain

    Wontdothatagain

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    He has RCBO'S
     
  6. SkyDave

    SkyDave

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    Hi Guys,

    Firstly, thanks for the rapid response.

    I've uploaded a picture of my cons unit with some labels for your information.

    Hope this explains my situation a little better as it's obvious from your responses that my "Spark" repertoire is a little iffy to say the least.

    Thanks Again

    D

     
  7. sparkwright

    sparkwright

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    You have four MCBs and one RCBO there.

    On a RCBO, you connect the neutral lead to the neutral block, and the earth lead (if there is one) to the earth block, in the same terminal as the earth wires of the circuit.

    The circuit's live and neutral wires go to the L and N terminals of the RCBO. You must not connect the neutrals to the main neutral block, like you would with a regular MCB. Otherwise, it will trip.

    It seems you do not have enough RCBOs.
    You should think about replacing the MCBs for RCBOs.
    You can get one module RCBOs, unlike that two module RCBO you already have.
    This will save space in the consumer unit.
    However, the one module RCBOs are taller, so you may have to rearrange the wiring so you have room.

    It is very important not to mix up the wiring, in case you have to operate more than one breaker to isolate a socket circuit. I only mention it because such daft things can happen.

    I would say it is very important to have these circuits protected by RCD. Particularly the shower, in my opinion.

    Replace the two module RCBO to give you a spare way for future use.

    Use only Hager to fit in your board.

    I recommend you employ a decent electrician to do this, and to check over your installation.
     
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  9. sparkwright

    sparkwright

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    You should have a shield to cover that live busar at the bottom of the board. Switch off and take care when fitting it.
     
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  10. SkyDave

    SkyDave

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    Guys!!!!

    I can't thank you all enough!!!

    It seems the kitchen guys had put the neutrals that should go into the the neutral side of the RCBO directly into the neutral block which I guess was causing it to trip.

    It's wired up correctly now and working fine. The shield to cover the live busa is also back on.

    Again, thanks for your time lads, you've help has been fantastic
     
  11. sparkwright

    sparkwright

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    So which circuit is currently served by the RCBO now?
     
  12. SkyDave

    SkyDave

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    The sockets. That's how it was initially, but after everyones comments, I'll be upgrading ASAP.
     
  13. securespark

    securespark

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    Are the two legs of the socket circuit now fed by the same device?

    What is the RCBO feeding when that pic was taken?
     
  14. SkyDave

    SkyDave

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    Yes, at the top of the RCBO there are two reds going into the Live port and the corresponding blacks are in the Neutral port.
     
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