UN Charter on refugees.

[Doppleganger]

Obviously, I'm not going to post the whole caboodle, just the relevant bit, to totally refute the urban myths.

Let's concentrate our minds on the first paragraph, and the conditions that need to be met, for that paragraph to be applicable.

A country of "first country of asylum" applies if (and only if)
a) the refugee has been recognised in that country as a refugee, and that country continues to protect that refugee, or
b) if the refugee enjoys sufficient protection, and has registered in that country, and would be readmitted to that country.

I think that is absolutely clear and unambiguous.
If a refugee has not been recognised (or registered) in the first (safe) country that they land, or they would not be allowed re-admittance. The "first country of asylum" does not apply, and cannot be applied.
The UN Charter makes no requirement on refugees to register in the "first country of asylum".

So we can absolutely dismiss the urban mythology about refugees having to register in the first country that they reach!

The article is a permissive article, not a legislative article, that allows a member country to return an asylum seeker to the first country (it means that a country can choose to follow it, but is not obliged to)

Introduction: International Standards The concept of first country of asylum is defined in Article 26 of the APD: A country can be considered to be a first country of asylum for a particular applicant for asylum if:

(a) s/he has been recognised in that country as a refugee and s/he can still avail him/herself of that protection; or
(b) s/he otherwise enjoys sufficient protection in that country, including benefiting from the principle of non-refoulement; provided that s/he will be re-admitted to that country. In applying the concept of first country of asylum to the particular circumstances of an applicant for asylum Member States may take into account Article 27 (1).​

Application in law and practice Belgium and France have not transposed Article 26 in national legislation.
The other surveyed Member States, i.e. Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Finland, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Spain and the UK have transposed or reflect the concept of the first country of asylum in their respective national laws.
Belgium, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Greece and Slovenia do not apply in practice the concept of first country of asylum. All other Member States of focus in this research applied it rarely.​

https://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain/opendocpdf.pdf?reldoc=y&docid=4bab55da2

 

[Notch7]

The UN Charter makes no requirement on refugees to register in the "first country of asylum"

Nobody said it did.

You should read what Vinty posted, he seems to be better informed

 

[sodthisforfun]

Nobody said it did.

You should read what Vinty posted, he seems to be better informed

Awww, leave himmy alone, he needs to be right, to feel validated.

 

[Doppleganger]

I'm having difficulty finding anything on the other urban myth, about a refugee being refused asylum in one EU member state, applies to all other member states.

I can find a case judgement on this, indicating that another member state has no requirement to consider a refugee's application if they have already been refused in another state.
But that is a long, long way from claiming that a refusal automatically applies to all member states. In fact, it kind of refutes it by saying, "there is no requirement". In other words, another member state may do so, if they wish.

in such a situation, ... does not ... mean that the Member State ... is required ..., under Article 3(2) of Regulation No 343/2003, to examine the application for asylum.
https://fra.europa.eu/en/charterpedia/article/18-right-asylum
​

So I guess the other urban myth, about a refugees refusal in one member state applies EU wide to other states, pedaled by right-winger extremists is also nonsense.

 

[Doppleganger]

Nobody said it did.

You should read what Vinty posted, he seems to be better informed

Vinty said:

According to the UN charter for refugees, a refugee is supposed to claim refugee status in the first safe country they come to.
If they don't they then lose the right to claim asylum.
As these latest arrivels are Iranian then they should have been claiming asylum in some country in the middle East.
Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...rs-seeking-asylum.515263/page-5#ixzz5b9xTAgFh​

His urban mythology has been well and truly demolished, by quoting the relevant UN Charter.
But, as others have suggested, I don't expect facts to interfere with your prejudice.

Vinty also said:

Under European law if a member state refuses asylum to a refugee that decision applies to all member states.
Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...rs-seeking-asylum.515263/page-7#ixzz5b9yHIada
​

The EU case law that I have referenced also demolishes that urban mythology claimed by Vinty.
So I guess Vinty's urban mythology is exactly that, urban mythology, probably picked up in some bar somewhere, or maybe some right-wing website, or right-wing extremists posting on supposedly ambivalent web sites.
I also expect other right-wing extremists to prefer Vinty's version to the real facts.

 

[Doppleganger]

Awww, leave himmy alone, he needs to be right, to feel validated.

If you are referring to me, I feel the need to clarify the difference between urban mythology based on extreme prejudice, and reality.

 

[Doppleganger]

Just another minor comment about sufficient protection given to refugees.
According to the UN Charter, sufficient protection comes very close to that that would be given to a nations own citizens.
Thus, DIY transit camps, confinement in such camps, etc probably do not qualify as sufficient protection.

Although designated UN refugee camps do not qualify because the UN is not a nation and therefore cannot afford such protection as a nation.

 

[Doppleganger]

Interestingly, I found this:

Immigration Asylum and Nationality Act 2006
Immigration Asylum and Nationality Act 2006(link is external)
An Act to make provision about immigration, asylum and nationality; and for connected purposes​

• Read moreabout Immigration Asylum and Nationality Act 2006

The Immigration Rules
The Immigration Rules(link is external)
Immigration Rules part 11: Asylum
Paragraph 327 Under the Rules an asylum applicant is a person who either;
(a) makes a request to be recognised as a refugee under the Refugee Convention on the basis that it would be contrary to the United Kingdom’s obligations under the Refugee Convention for them to be removed from or required to leave the United Kingdom, or
(b) otherwise makes a request for international protection. “Application for asylum” shall be construed accordingly.
Paragraph 327A. Every person has the right to make an application for asylum on their own behalf.
https://fra.europa.eu/en/charterpedia/article/18-right-asylum
​

I'll come back to this later.

Edit: (to mollify Sodthisforfun's impatience )
Evidently, any refugee or migrant can claim asylum, and the nation, in which they are claiming asylum, has a legal and fundamental duty to assess that claim.
They cannot immediately, without due consideration and process, simply return that refugee/migrant to any other destination.
I've summarised this below:
an asylum applicant ...;
(a) makes a request ... it would be contrary to the United Kingdom’s obligations ... for them to be removed from or required to leave the United Kingdom, or
(b) otherwise makes a request for international protection. “Application for asylum” shall be construed accordingly.
.... Every person has the right to make an application for asylum on their own behalf.

 

[sodthisforfun]

I'll come back to this later.

Am sure we're all on tenterhooks.

 

[Notch7]

I'm having difficulty finding anything

It doesnt surprise me.

You are looking in the wrong place.

The refugees are moving within the EU.

You need to be looking at the Dublin Regulation

 

[motorbiking]

I'll come back to this later.

You need to read this http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/22/contents/enacted

 

[Doppleganger]

It doesnt surprise me.

You are looking in the wrong place.

The refugees are moving within the EU.

You need to be looking at the Dublin Regulation

Show us.
Or is this another of your inventions?

The Dublin Regulation:
"It is based on the principle , that the first Member State where finger prints are stored or an asylum claim is lodged is responsible for a person's asylum claim."
It mentions absolutely nothing about a requirement for a refugee to claim asylum in any specific country.
It also only refers to the country in which the refugee is first registered.

So, not only does it not support the urban mythology, it emphatically refutes it!

It also emphatically supports the principle that a refugee cannot be immediately relocated to another destination, until their claim is processed.

 

[Doppleganger]

You need to read this http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/22/contents/enacted

That applies after the claim for asylum has been processed and rejected, not on the point of a refugee arriving.
Or it applies for someone wishing to immigrate to UK. The clue is in the title:
Immigration Act 2014

 

[SirGalahad]

Fine you clarified the issue re refugees.

However can you tell me how we can expedite their asylum claims?

How do we stop them becoming refugees?

 

[Ihavenojob]

Is this the new charter they're pushing that not many countries have signed up to ?