Update on Part P from the ODPM

[Big_Spark]

Sometime ago I wrote to Ian Drummond, who heads the team dealing with Part P in the ODPM. I beleived that my letter had been filed under B for BIN as I was not on their list of those consulted, however I recieved an e-mail reply today which many of you may find helpful is sorting out the exact position we will all respectively be in when it is introduced.

Dear Mr Franklin

Thank you for your message. I apologise for the extended delay in replying.

As you are aware, The Government has decided to introduce requirements on electrical safety in dwellings into the Building Regulations as Part P. In brief, this will mean that all electrical installation work in dwellings will need to meet the standards in BS 7671 (the 'wiring regulations').

There will be two ways for electrical installers to demonstrate their compliance with the requirements.:

i. The first will be to join a competent person self-certification scheme. There have been 8 applications from bodies to run such schemes for Part P and the Building Regulations Advisory Committee is currently considering the applications and will make recommendations to Ministers on which should be approved. The NICEIC is one of the applicants. BRE Certification have also applied and their application is in some respects also the application of then ECA.

In order to join one of these schemes an electrical contractor will need to prove competence to work to the standards in BS 7671. There will be a membership fee for each of these schemes, probably about £350-500 per year.

ii. Those electrical contractors who choose not to join a competent person scheme and all those Carrying out DIY work will need to submit a building notice to a local authority (and pay a building control fee) in respect of each job they do. The local authority will then have the responsibility of inspecting and testing the work to ensure that it is safe.

It will be for each electrical contractor to decide which of these routes to compliance will be best for their business.

I would like to assure you that all those bodies applying to run competent person schemes will be subject to a robust set of criteria (which are available on the ODPM website (www.odpm.gov.uk) before their scheme will be approved. The Government will then periodically monitor the schemes to make sure that they are achieving compliance with the Building Regulations.

I should like to thank you for writing in with your views, your rather unique position, being a Consultant, Contractor and Educator has been very helpful and inciteful. The final draft of the legislation has yet to be created.

Next Wednesday I have a meeting with many interested parties to discuss this, I wonder if you would be able to find the time to attend so you may be party to this process, your position could be most helpful.

I hope that what I have said will alleviate your concerns. Please let me know if you wish to attend, and I will arrange a security pass.


Ian Drummond
Building Regulations Division
Office of the Deputy Prime Minister
18/A Portland House
Stag Place
London SW1E 5LP

Tel: ***********
GTN: **********

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If you do go, I'd be fascinated to know if they have any idea of the size of the issue. Given that adding 2 sockets to a ring, or a new spur in a kitchen etc requires notification to Building Control, have they any idea how many notifications they will receive?

Also, how many Building Control departments have people with the necessary skills to carry out inspection & testing of electrical installations?

And (maybe a bit too contentious) has any thought been given as to how the new regulations will be enforced?

 

[Big_Spark]

Ban, I do intend to go, I have already been told a security pass will be waiting for me, and these are some of then points I intend to raise.

If you, or anyone else, can think of any salient points that you feel need addressing then please do let me know in this thread and I will add them to my list of questions if I have not already put them there.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Other questions which have occurred to me:

If the council BC are unable to field someone to carry out an inspection, will it be their responsibility to subcontract, or will the applicant be responsible for finding a private contractor?

Will council fees be commensurate with the amount of work involved, and in line with existing fees for inspection of building works etc?

Will there be a statutory scale of fees, or limits on charges, for inspections by private contractors?

Sorry to harp on the same theme - I guess as a DIY-er who would prefer to stay within the law these are the things that concern me. You and many others are probably far more interested in the self-certification schemes....

 

[Big_Spark]

Two of them are already on the list which is growing daily..I think he may regret the invitation

 

[dingbat]

I've been hearing comments which seem to indicate that the state of readiness of local authorities for Part P varies from unsure to, "Part P? what's that?" I'd be keen to hear how building control departments are reacting and if they have ideas to do more than simply hand all the business to NIC-registered contractors.

How might individuals in the process of NICEIC registration (as I hope to be before P comes into force) fare? Or, as has been suggested elsewhere, will it be a black and white case of in-the-club-fine otherwise find another job? That's to say, is the introduction of Part P fairly likley/likely/very likely to really cause upset amongst the sole traders out there or will there be a phase-in period?

That's all for now

 

[journeyman]

How many times will the inspector have to visit?

The wiring will have to be visually inspected. All of the joints will have to be accessible, that is part of the regulations, but accessible might mean under my newly fitted carpet or new wooden floor. There will have to be more than one visit for these scenarios.

Part P will be very difficult to implement for DIY, or it may be so expensive as to make DIY not worth the effort.

 

[il78]

If the council BC are unable to field someone to carry out an inspection, will it be their responsibility to subcontract, or will the applicant be responsible for finding a private contractor?

Either way, I'm in a job for awhile or I'll be writing to the council for a new one........

I think more than likely it will sub-contracted out......

 

[Big_Spark]

I am actually able to answer that question now as I have just had a long and interesting conversation with Mr Drummond on the telephone.

Guidelines issued to local authorities will require them, where possible, to directly employ inspectors, however there is recognition that some of the smaller authorities will not have the resouces to do this, as such they will be allowed to contract this work out, BUT NOT to Installation contractors, they must only be Inspection and Testing Contractors. This is to avoid the obvious potential of a conflict of interests.

Further, small electrical work will NOT be notifiable under Part P. This means that adding additions to existing circuits, such as a socket or two, the lights and so forth, will not require notification.

However you will be required to notify if you install new circuits or install circuits to external buildings and its supply, although Local Authorities will be allowed a certain amount of discretion on this point.

Fees for this work will be in line with existing Building Inspection fees and therefore are Statatory, however the actual cost of the fee will be decided by the local authority and be in relation to the amount of work being or having been undertaken.

He does conceed that enforcement is to be a major issue where it involves DIY.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I am actually able to answer that question now as I have just had a long and interesting conversation with Mr Drummond on the telephone.

Guidelines issued to local authorities will require them, where possible, to directly employ inspectors, however there is recognition that some of the smaller authorities will not have the resouces to do this, as such they will be allowed to contract this work out, BUT NOT to Installation contractors, they must only be Inspection and Testing Contractors. This is to avoid the obvious potential of a conflict of interests.

An excellent idea. Caveat emptor regarding cross- or common-ownership of Installation and I&T businesses advisable though?

Further, small electrical work will NOT be notifiable under Part P. This means that adding additions to existing circuits, such as a socket or two, the lights and so forth, will not require notification.

Sounds like they've at least partly backed away from the draconian 2nd pass of the proposals that came out following the consultation period.

However you will be required to notify if you install new circuits or install circuits to external buildings and its supply, although Local Authorities will be allowed a certain amount of discretion on this point.

I might be tempted to exercise that discretion for them.....

Fees for this work will be in line with existing Building Inspection fees and therefore are Statatory, however the actual cost of the fee will be decided by the local authority and be in relation to the amount of work being or having been undertaken.

Could be worse.

He does conceed that enforcement is to be a major issue where it involves DIY.

Really? I wonder if, right now, NICEIC are lobbying for the sale of CUs, and more than 5m of cable etc to the general public to be banned...

 

[il78]

That explains the security guard in the B&Q electrical isle asking for NIC enrolment numbers....

 

[Big_Spark]

He does conceed that enforcement is to be a major issue where it involves DIY.

Really? I wonder if, right now, NICEIC are lobbying for the sale of CUs, and more than 5m of cable etc to the general public to be banned...

They considered this actually, the complete banning of DIY electrical works, however it flys in the face of EU competition rules and it would appear that big business has more power than Government

Not sure if that is a good or bad thing!!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

They considered this actually, the complete banning of DIY electrical works, however it flys in the face of EU competition rules and it would appear that big business has more power than Government

Not sure if that is a good or bad thing!!

I don't care what stopped them.

Mind you - think of the black-market opportunites for you guys. "Here Guv, I've got a nice little reel of 2.5mm out the back if you fancy, and I know someone who might be able to get you a few MCBs..."

 

[Big_Spark]

At least all sparks would earn a decent living then





(That is a joke before someone comes out with any comments)

 

[pipme]

Hi,

I suppose all this stuff will neatly (?) dovetail into the idea of a 'log book' being mandatory for a dwelling, another Govn Initiative.
Imagine the haggling on a sale .... no test certs for this and that ..
This is going to be expensive for the consumer.

What happens as the regs evolve over time ?

Or am I just being negative certainly not neutral at this point.

P.