Upgrade Boiler / Cyclinder

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by DazJWood, 9 Mar 2009.

  1. DazJWood

    DazJWood

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    I am in the process of planning my bathroom.

    What started out as a basic change of suite is just escalating into more proposed work, however if it gets me to the end result without too much excessive cost then all is good.

    I have ordered a steam shower bath cubicle thingy, which comprises a whirlpool bath section (with it's own pump for recirculation of water), and a shower section which has steam facility, overhead rainshower, extra hand held shower and 12 body jets. The quoted minimum water pressure is 2 bar.

    Now I currently have a gravity fed system. So I am now aware that I will need to fit a pump which must be plumbed in to it's own unique supply to the hot water cyclinder and to the cold water cistern in the loft.

    I am just weighing up my options now as my boiler has not been serviced since I first moved into the house (9 years ago). It was also never that clear how old the boiler was when I first moved in as I think I was spun a bit of a tail to how new it was. It still works fine although the outer casing is somewhat rusty and on of the knobs has broken off.

    My hot water cyclinder is also somewhat precariously installed in the airing cupboard above the boiler. It is seemingly sitting on a couple of wooden beams that only seem to be held up by thin bits of skirting board on the wall. Yes I know I should have reinforced it along time ago. Nevertheless the water cylinder has a lot of greenish limescale (I think) or rust of some sort in various places. I am guessing that this may need replacing.

    Now I'm also concerned about the flue as this is the concrete type piping that vents into the loft space and out through the roof. The piping especially in the loft seems fairly fragile and the joins between bends cracked. I do have a carbon monoxide detector functioning and fitted on my landing to be on the safe side but now want this looked at and upgraded too.

    I guess I have a few questions:

    1) Should I get my current boiler serviced, hot water cylinder replaced and flue fixed. Fit a pump via separate hot and cold supplies and plump in the shower steam unit. If this is the best option and I'm going to replace the hot water cylinder then should I be thinking of getting a bigger one. My concern is that with a pump I may run the hot cylinder dry.

    2) Should I fix the flue and take the opportunity to change the boiler to a combi system. My concern here would be that the water pressure still may not be enough to power the rainfall shower and jets.

    If I've asked anything that appears obvious or just plain stupid then please excuse my ignorance as I'm learning most of this as I go along.

    I'd appreciate any constructive comments.

    Thanks in advance,

    Daz
     
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  3. BigBurner

    BigBurner

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    Best options:

    1. High flow combi - ATAG 51kW, Ethos 54C, W-Bosch 550

    2. Integrated CH/DHW Heat bank/thermal store with a high output boiler that will combine with the stored water to fill up the bath zippo...and have a zippo recovery time. These are far more than a DHW cylinder giving CH buffering as well
    .

    Avoid unvented cylinders as they require an annual service which costs and can blow up.
     
  4. Hugh Jaleak

    Hugh Jaleak

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    First and foremost I would strongly recommend you engage the services of a Registered Gas Installer to inspect and service the existing installation ASAP, and ascertain its safety and expected lifespan. It may work, but so do a lot of cars and I wouldnt expect a car to pass an MOT test after 9 years without servicing!

    Also suggest you do a forum search on author of previous post. There has NEVER been an incident of an domestic unvented HW cylinder exploding in the UK.
     
  5. BigBurner

    BigBurner

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    Cylinders have exploded in the UK, of various types and for for reasons. The point is.......they do. Those using pressurised water have a far higher probability rate of exploding. Just simple odds.

    Just wait. The T&P valves have failed elsewhere and kabooooooom. Most unvented cylinders are foreign made as well. Once the install base is larger and older, expect many Kabooooooms as the neglected cylinders take off all around us.

    They are time bombs.

    Thermal stores/heat banks are far more than an unvented cylinder - the difference appears way beyond the reasoning of most here.
     
  6. gas4you

    gas4you

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    Not one correctly fitted un-vented cylinder has ever exploded in the UK. Period

    The only thing simple and odd is you and the unqualified tripe you advise

    The only time bomb is an unsuspecting DIY poster listening to your advice and following it. I do hope you have plenty of insurance norcon.
     
  7. gremlin16

    gremlin16

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    If it was possible to buy and legal to install a Kaboooooooms cylinder I would gladly, free of charge, supply and install at your home BB.

    Not sure if your other mental inmates would appreciate it though.
     
  8. BigBurner

    BigBurner

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    Wait until they are neglected and old. Kaboooooooooooom
     
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  10. mogget

    mogget

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    Do you mean the cylinders or your fellow inmates?
     
  11. Hugh Jaleak

    Hugh Jaleak

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    I will attempt to advise best I can, hopefully someone with more knowlege will be able to correct me and/or offer further advice. You are limited to your options if the mains water supply into the property simply cannot deliver. Would be worth getting this checked before making any major decisions.

    However, if the mains pressure is suitable then id say you have several options. Stick with existing setup, replace boiler and upgrade to a higher capacity cylinder, with associated increase in cold storage capacity if required. A vented cylinder is fed from the cold storage above, you would be drawing from both cylinder and cold storage, soon as cold storage runs dry, so does shower. Cylinder can be fitted with immersion(s) to provide back up in event of boiler breakdown.

    Combi as you suggested, should mains supply be adequate, but bear in mind if it breaks down you have neither heating or hot water pending repairs being effected.

    Again, dependant on supply an unvented cylinder, does not require cold storage capacity in loft and again can be fitted with immersion(s) to provide back up in event of boiler breakdown. Requires an installer with correct accreditation to fit though, and an annual service, (easily carried out in conjunction with boiler service).

    I still strongly recommend you get existing serviced and checked asap, for safety purposes. Carbon Monoxide wont give you any warning or respect. Better to be safe than sorry. Im sure your gas engineer would be happy to advise and quote for the additional upgrading works for the new bathroom.
     
  12. BigBurner

    BigBurner

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    ..and costs and may explode. Please understand thermals storage. You have not mentioned it and this indicates you know little of it.
     
  13. Hugh Jaleak

    Hugh Jaleak

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    I have heard little to inspire me of this system. I am trying to offer some factual advice without the thread descending in a farce as some seem prone to do.
     
  14. BigBurner

    BigBurner

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    You are offering opinionated advice, NOT factual advice. In fact imcomplete and poor advice.

    You say, "I have heard little". That indicates no study of thermals systems or knowledge and that your knowledge is based on what you glean from the Trade Counter.

    Read this for starters:
    http://www.heatweb.com. Good explanations.
     
  15. Hugh Jaleak

    Hugh Jaleak

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    Please do not quote me out of context. I said:
    Those are my opinions, you are free to offer your own. The idea of a forum is to discuss, not shout down anyone who does not agree with your opinion.

    Maybe you would be able to help on this thread ???

    http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=171311
     
  16. DIYnot Local

    DIYnot Local

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