URGENT - Hyrdrogn in NEW Central Heat Systm.

[universe]

I'm glad you guys are enjoying this extra-detailed-down to-atomic level explanation of central heating problems.


The fundamentals of water corrosion are shown in my last post.
Water (H2O) is not H2O. It is H2O <==> H+ & OH-, ie it's an 'equilibrium' of H+ and OH- ions, which move around each other. These constant exchanges of H+/OH- ions actually produce water's own electrochemical potential, measured in milli-Volts - it can be measured relative to a standard Calomel reference electrode. Also, BECAUSE OF this self ionisation of water (H2O <==>H+/OH-), anything immersed in water will be immediately surrounded by H+/OH- ions (detergents replace this barrier with their own polarised ionic agents to repel grease). You can actually calculate the number of H+ & OH- ions available depending on the weight of water - pH measurement (neutral value) will confirm the calculations.

One-way 'chemical' reactions like this:
Fe + HCl --> FeCl + H
, are shown like this:
Fe + 2HCl --> FeCl2 + H2

This is because:
HCl (hydrochloric acid) is ALWAYS HCl <==> H+ & Cl- in equilibrium,
ie just like water H2O <==> H+ & OH- in equilibrium,
but obviously Cl- is more potent than OH- in this example.

Question: If you add a TINY, TINY, drop of HCl to an iron/steel BUCKET of PURE and 'deoxygenated' WATER, then does anyone believe that the ONLY H+ ions/atoms attacking/corroding the bucket will BELONG to that tiny HCl drop?

ANSWER: NO - the tiny drop of HCl which is H+ & Cl- will SUPPORT the already occuring H+ reaction with the metallic bucket, as provided by water (H2O) which is H+ & OH-. In other words, the rate of 'existing' corrosion reaction increases.
Have fun.

 

[oilman]

.....water is a stable compound and it does not react with anything.

Really? There are two things you can use to prove this then

1. Drop a lump of sodium into a container of water, just make it a small lump.
I knew of someone who dropped a 1lb lump into a toilet to get rid of it. It did, it got rid of the toilet!!!!

2. Pour a cup of water into a bowl of sulphuric acid, if you are able afterwards, let us know what happened.

Or was that statement not quite what you meant?

 

[sterose]

.....water is a stable compound and it does not react with anything.

Really? There are two things you can use to prove this then

1. Drop a lump of sodium into a container of water, just make it a small lump.
I knew of someone who dropped a 1lb lump into a toilet to get rid of it. It did, it got rid of the toilet!!!!

2. Pour a cup of water into a bowl of sulphuric acid, if you are able afterwards, let us know what happened.

Or was that statement not quite what you meant?

Alright, I'm sorry oilman. Water does react with certain elements.

I'm glad you guys are enjoying this extra-detailed-down to-atomic level explanation of central heating problems.


The fundamentals of water corrosion are shown in my last post.
Water (H2O) is not H2O. It is H2O <==> H+ & OH-, ie it's an 'equilibrium' of H+ and OH- ions, which move around each other. These constant exchanges of H+/OH- ions actually produce water's own electrochemical potential, measured in milli-Volts - it can be measured relative to a standard Calomel reference electrode. Also, BECAUSE OF this self ionisation of water (H2O <==>H+/OH-), anything immersed in water will be immediately surrounded by H+/OH- ions (detergents replace this barrier with their own polarised ionic agents to repel grease). You can actually calculate the number of H+ & OH- ions available depending on the weight of water - pH measurement (neutral value) will confirm the calculations.

One-way 'chemical' reactions like this:
Fe + HCl --> FeCl + H
, are shown like this:
Fe + 2HCl --> FeCl2 + H2

This is because:
HCl (hydrochloric acid) is ALWAYS HCl <==> H+ & Cl- in equilibrium,
ie just like water H2O <==> H+ & OH- in equilibrium,
but obviously Cl- is more potent than OH- in this example.

Question: If you add a TINY, TINY, drop of HCl to an iron/steel BUCKET of PURE and 'deoxygenated' WATER, then does anyone believe that the ONLY H+ ions/atoms attacking/corroding the bucket will BELONG to that tiny HCl drop?

ANSWER: NO - the tiny drop of HCl which is H+ & Cl- will SUPPORT the already occuring H+ reaction with the metallic bucket, as provided by water (H2O) which is H+ & OH-. In other words, the rate of 'existing' corrosion reaction increases.
Have fun.

Water (H2O) is not H2O.

Interesting theory.

It is H2O <==> H+ & OH-, ie it's an 'equilibrium' of H+ and OH- ions

You might like to know that H+ is actually H3O+. It is NOT pure hydrogen.
Water does shift between H2O and H+ and OH-, but they soon combine again and do not react with other atoms.

On the other hand, when Hydrogen Chloride ionizes in water, it gives the H away and doesn't take it back. Because of this it is a very strong acid.

At least this is my understanding (what I can remember). I'm still sure that water is not corrosive.

Have fun.

That, my friend, I will.

 

[flashbang]

My brain hurts....

 

[breezer]

dont think pure water is corrosive, its all the other bits and bobs that make it so. then again where would lager be without water?

 

[masona]

My brain hurts....

Your brain need more water to stop it dehydrating from lager.
Let me explain,

Water is co2-45 p~ of 2% so therefore lager is > 70% less co2-45 p~+ 2HCl --> FeCl2 + H2 so the reaction would be HCl <==> H+ & Cl

Hope this clear up any confusion

 

[breezer]

i beg to differ, the equation should be

lager = h2o + nmh4= h-ic up -burp

 

[flashbang]

AAAAAAAAAAAAGH

 

[masona]

Hmmmm,take two paracetamol with erm eh erm I'm afraid it's going have to be WAAAATTTTER

 

[flashbang]

 

[sterose]

My brain hurts....

Your brain need more water to stop it dehydrating from lager.
Let me explain,

Water is co2-45 p~ of 2% so therefore lager is > 70% less co2-45 p~+ 2HCl --> FeCl2 + H2 so the reaction would be HCl <==> H+ & Cl

Hope this clear up any confusion

I was drinking last night, and I'm a bit dehydrated, and I need to add some booze to my alcohol.

I mean some water to my alcohol.

No wait, I mean some water to my blood.

 

[sterose]

By the way, it's good to see that, not only is this debate still going without any conclusive facts submitted yet - only grounded theories. But it is also turning people to drink.

 

[boilerbeasty]

Are your sample results back yet ?

 

[sterose]

My brain hurts....

Your brain need more water to stop it dehydrating from lager.
Let me explain,

Water is co2-45 p~ of 2% so therefore lager is > 70% less co2-45 p~+ 2HCl --> FeCl2 + H2 so the reaction would be HCl <==> H+ & Cl

Hope this clear up any confusion

Er....no.

This makes no sense.

By the way, these arguments, as interesting as they are, are irrelevant.
Water, or indeed its contents, are not nearly corrsosive enought to produce the amount of gas we are talking about.
Water that corrosive would be undrinkable. In fact, if it got on your skin it would burn.

 

[taydo]

The system must be flushed through with a suitable chemical leave it in for the maximum time scale then drain flush through again and fill with correct dosing of inhibitor.

good luck

Brian