Utility and kitchen circuits

[JohnW2]

That depends on whether you think any new ring finals should ever be created.

It does, but a lot of people clearly do think that - and, as I implied, if that is their view, they may often feel that 'there is not much to choose' between a ring and a radial. I would be very surprised if (new) ring finals do not still considerably outnumber radial sockets circuits.

We all have views about whether rings (at least, new rings) should be allowed, but they have stood the test of time (has anyone ever heard of a problem due to a short run of one arm of a ring being 'overloaded'?) - it is, after all, essentially just a (minor) application of the concept of diversity. Even with 20A CCC cable, one has to have the full 30/32A load pretty close to the start of one leg for the cable to become technically overloaded. If the cable is 'clipped direct' (27A CCC), then even the worst conceivable case, of the current through a short run of the cable being 30/32A (probably not for very long), the cable is not going to come to any harm.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

I thought the options were 4mm radial or 2.5mm ring?

No, you can have a 2.5mm² radial, but not with a 32A CPD.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't really want 2 switches above the counter for dryer and washer but thought it had to be done that way, is there a better way round it? Do you mean just a normal switch for each?

They would need to be 20A switches. If you used grid switches, both could be accommodated in the same single box as the SFCU you were considering. I may be wrong, but I don't think there is any regulatory requirement for an above-counter switch at all, although some feel that it is desirable, if not only as an 'emergency switch'. In 'emergencies', you can always switch off the entire circuit at the CU, then pull out the appliance and unplug it.

I already have loads of 2.5mm which is why I thought it'd have to be rings as prenticeboyofderry suggested in post 2

As I wrote to BAS, I suspected that's what you were implying. However, as EFLI observed, one really should decide whether one wants/needs a ring or radial circuit, which will then determine the size of cable required - rather than the other way around!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I thought the options were 4mm radial or 2.5mm ring?

No, you can have a 2.5mm² radial, but not with a 32A CPD.

As a generalisation, that's obviously true. However, in context, it would clearly not be appropriate to design a 20A radial circuit if one knew that it would/could be serving at least 2 x 3kW simultaneous loads.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Electrician hasn't started yet but I want to get as much ready as possible including having all materials on site.

Don't you think you should be asking the electrician what materials he will want?

He's the one who has seen the job, and he's the one who has agreed to use materials provided by you, but surely he needs to specify them?

How come you can get them cheaper than he can anyway?

 

[Homerdoh]

When I last spoke to the electrician he did say the 2.5mm cable I already had was fine, It was just me wondering if It was going to be done in radials or rings as I would probably need to get a few more metres if rings.

I'm not fussed if I have rings or radials really, makes no difference to me as long as all my sockets and appliances work and are safe!

I do have a hang up about too many sfcu's on view though, that's why I'm looking for alternative methods to run my dishwasher, dryer and washing machine. So could the dryer and washing machine run off a single switch socket behind each and I'll just have to isolate from the cu if needed?

regards

Homer

 

[EFLImpudence]

I do have a hang up about too many sfcu's on view though,

Don't have any, then.

that's why I'm looking for alternative methods to run my dishwasher, dryer and washing machine. So could the dryer and washing machine run off a single switch socket behind each and I'll just have to isolate from the cu if needed?

Yes. It's up to you what you want.

 

[JohnW2]

When I last spoke to the electrician he did say the 2.5mm cable I already had was fine, It was just me wondering if It was going to be done in radials or rings as I would probably need to get a few more metres if rings. I'm not fussed if I have rings or radials really, makes no difference to me as long as all my sockets and appliances work and are safe!

As I've said, although it is theoretically possible to have 2.5mm² radials, they are usually only 20A and hence not really suitable for your purpose.

I do have a hang up about too many sfcu's on view though, that's why I'm looking for alternative methods to run my dishwasher, dryer and washing machine. So could the dryer and washing machine run off a single switch socket behind each and I'll just have to isolate from the cu if needed?

That's what I suggested as a possibility. If each were on a separate spur (or maybe even EFLI's idea of using a single 4mm² cable for two sockets, although some will probably disapprove of that), there's no need for an above-counter fuse and, as I said, I personally don't believe that there is actually any regulatory requirement for there to be any sort of above-counter switches for them (but would welcome other views on that). If you took that approach, unswitched sockets would be fine - you'd never want to switch them off, and you could always pull the plug out of its socket.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Homerdoh]

I do have a hang up about too many sfcu's on view though,

Don't have any, then.

that's why I'm looking for alternative methods to run my dishwasher, dryer and washing machine. So could the dryer and washing machine run off a single switch socket behind each and I'll just have to isolate from the cu if needed?

Yes. It's up to you what you want.

Great, I wasn't sure if there was some sort of legal requirement for them so wanted to find out before suggesting it to the electrician, I already have one for the hob and oven but thankfully avoided having two by getting a dual outlet plate to put in the cupboard in between.

So does each socket for the dryer and washing machine even need a switch?
Could I just plug each into one like on the link below?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-logic-plus-13a-1-gang-unswitched-plug-socket-white/58698

regards

Homer

 

[Homerdoh]

When I last spoke to the electrician he did say the 2.5mm cable I already had was fine, It was just me wondering if It was going to be done in radials or rings as I would probably need to get a few more metres if rings. I'm not fussed if I have rings or radials really, makes no difference to me as long as all my sockets and appliances work and are safe!

As I've said, although it is theoretically possible to have 2.5mm² radials, they are usually only 20A and hence not really suitable for your purpose.

I do have a hang up about too many sfcu's on view though, that's why I'm looking for alternative methods to run my dishwasher, dryer and washing machine. So could the dryer and washing machine run off a single switch socket behind each and I'll just have to isolate from the cu if needed?

That's what I suggested as a possibility. If each were on a separate spur (or maybe even EFLI's idea of using a single 4mm² cable for two sockets, although some will probably disapprove of that), there's no need for an above-counter fuse and, as I said, I personally don't believe that there is actually any regulatory requirement for there to be any sort of above-counter switches for them (but would welcome other views on that). If you took that approach, unswitched sockets would be fine - you'd never want to switch them off, and you could always pull the plug out of its socket.

Kind Regards, John

Sorry John I didn't see your post until after I'd submitted mine, You basically answered my question before I even asked it

regards

Homer

 

[JohnW2]

So does each socket for the dryer and washing machine even need a switch?

As I've just written, I see absolutely no point in having switched sockets - unswitched ones would be fine.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Sorry John I didn't see your post until after I'd submitted mine, You basically answered my question before I even asked it

Indeed ... and whilst we were both typing again, I answered it again for you

Kind Regards, John[/list]

 

[Homerdoh]

So does each socket for the dryer and washing machine even need a switch?

As I've just written, I see absolutely no point in having switched sockets - unswitched ones would be fine.

Kind Regards, John

I'll do the same for the dishwasher in the kitchen then, but not for the fridge freezer as I read somewhere today that a dedicated cable with no rcd is a good idea for fridge freezers as they would still run even if something trips.

regards

Homer

 

[JohnW2]

I'll do the same for the dishwasher in the kitchen then, but not for the fridge freezer as I read somewhere today that a dedicated cable with no rcd is a good idea for fridge freezers as they would still run even if something trips.

You need to talk to your electrician about that last bit. Although what you say is reasonable, if the cable is to be buried (in a wall) anywhere, it would have to be special cable (with earthed metal armouring or covering) if it were not RCD protected.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Great, I wasn't sure if there was some sort of legal requirement for them so wanted to find out before suggesting it to the electrician, I already have one for the hob and oven but thankfully avoided having two by getting a dual outlet plate to put in the cupboard in between.

So does each socket for the dryer and washing machine even need a switch?
Could I just plug each into one like on the link below?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-logic-plus-13a-1-gang-unswitched-plug-socket-white/58698[/QUOTE]
I would strongly advise that you find a new electrician.

You clearly have no confidence in the current one's knowledge of the regulations, his ability to design appropriate circuits, or his willingness to listen to and discuss your requirements.