Vaillant VR392 VR65 VR10 Controls Upgrade

[UpgradeME]

I recently had a ecoTEC Plus 418 boiler installed which was connected up to my existing Honeywell controls (Y6630D Room Stat, CF9000 Programmer, Tank Stat and 2x2-Port valves) and open vented system / cylinder.

Vaillant suggests their controls will be 5-10% more efficient, to take advantage of the features and efficiencies of the full Vaillant system, I’m thinking of upgrading my controls to the following:

• - VRT392 Programmable Room Stat
  - VR65 Control Centre
  - VR10 NTC

I can purchase the above parts for £120 delivered.

After reading up (some great help and posts on here!) and all the relevant installation manuals, I thought I will do the following:

• - Use existing cabling for eBUS (there will be <10m running along side 230v)
  - Cut an extra slot in the tank foam to fit the NTC, using heatsink paste and secured/covered
  - Keep existing tank stat wired in-line with DHW 2-port valve as a “fail safe” (set @ 70 deg)

The advantages I think this will achieve are:

• - More efficient boiler modulating for HW
  - HW temperature can be set via VR392
  - HW boost available
  - Daily programmable times & temp for CH (& HW)

My question(s) are:

1) How much difference will the enhanced boiler modulating make (via the VR392/VR10) over just changing the room stat for a programmable one? i.e. is the 5-10% Vaillant quotes mainly down to the programmable times / temp or the modulating?

2) If I install the Vaillant solution, are there any particular installer settings on either the boiler or controls I need to be aware of / change? **

3) Is there anything else I should be aware of?

** I’ve read and think I understand the VR65, VR392 & ecoTEC 418 installation manuals, however any pointers / tips to watch out for from anyone that’s changed over to these controls would be most welcome!

 

[Biggles..]

Where are those bits from,that price is less than we pay considering we only fit vaillant.

 

[UpgradeME]

Where are those bits from,that price is less than we pay considering we only fit vaillant.

Check your messages. PM sent.

 

[mickyg]

cant see any issues with your plan its all good I tend to cut a piece of foam out of the cylinder, heat sink and then use aluminium tape to secure and seal it to the tank then push the piece of foam back in over the top. Installer settings for the 392 will be in the instructions anyway. Nothing you need to know that won't be provided in the literature. Energy savings of modulating controls varies for every situation, impossible to say what will happen, but what you will get is increased comfort levels.
You may also want to take a look and consider the VR430?

 

[UpgradeME]

Thanks for the feedback Mickyg, it's good to have the confirmation!

Energy savings of modulating controls varies for every situation, impossible to say what will happen, but what you will get is increased comfort levels.
You may also want to take a look and consider the VR430?

I've read about Weather Compensation (briefly) and think I understand it, however, I've not seen any stats to show if/how much it improves the system? Will it add much benefit, in addition to the features of the VRT392? i.e. If I understand correctly, the 392 will modulate the boiler output based on internal room temps, the 430 does it based on external (& internal?) temps. I therefore concluded there would only be a very small timeframe when the 430 had additional benefits?? (maybe wrong?)

Due to the installation location requirements, I'd have to go for the VRT430f, which will cost me an additional £100. I live in a 4 bed detached house in a small town/village in the middle of the UK. Do you think it would it be worth the additional investment? (Do you/anyone know of any statastics for the benefits of the VRT430 or Weather Compensation, over a normal (or VRT392) programmable stat?

 

[mickyg]

I don't know about statistics but it does make sense to run a condensing boiler at the lowest possible temperature and WC achieves this. My dad has this setup with the 430 and he's very happy with it now, although it has taken some messing about with parameters over the last few weeks to get it right, so this is something to bare in mind if installing it. If I'm honest Im not a great fan of the vaillant controls, find them a little overcomplicated, but WC is worth the effort imo.

 

[UpgradeME]

After doing a bit more reading on Weather Compensation, if anyone reading this is interested in how WC works, I found this PDF file http://bit.ly/gEHtll which is well written and I believe will be how the Vaillant VRT430 compensates...

I've yet to find out the difference between "Load Compensation" which seems to be built into the VRT392 and the "Weather Compensation" in the VRT430. Does anyone know? (besides one measures internal temp and one external)

One last question, even though I have 2 x 2port valves, should I leave the default installer setting (d.70) to restrict to CH *or* DHW only? i.e. Does the efficiency advantages of different boiler output temps for DHW and CH outweigh the inconvience? Would you normally change d.70 to 1 or leave it at it's default?

Thanks!

 

[croninsfc]

Hi,
I have just had these controls fitted with a new 618 boiler which I had installed in the attic (the old boiler was open vented and fitted in the kitchen)

One immediate benefit of the VR392 since my boiler is now in the attic is the fact that I never need to go in the attic to operate the boiler controls as everything is controlled through the VR392f. The controls on the boiler are left at the maximum clockwise position and the target HW setting is set on the 392 unit; the target flow temperature for the CH is set automatically according to heating demand so reduces automatically as the house warms up (and can be monitored on the 392). The summer/winter modes are automatically switched by the 392 according to the date.
One thing that I recently noticed is that the installer had not set the boiler control to the maximum setting as stated in the 392 manual, and the target flow temperature was reading an apparently excessive 90 degrees from a cold start, reducing to between 60 and 70 as the house warmed up.
Now that I have set the boiler controls as per the manual, target flow temperatures seem to be reduced, I will confirm this next time the heating comes on first thing in the morning.
One other thing that I have noted about this boiler/control combination compared to my old 29 year old system, is the comfort levels are improved dramatically presumably due to the boiler/controls modulating the output to maintain the temperature at the target thermostat setting with none of the overshoot/undershoot of an old dumb thermostat.

I am considering upgrading to the weather compensation option at a later date, but want to see how much this setup saves on gas compared to my old system before deciding if I think it is worth it.

 

[doitall]

Hope you fitted a good fire alarm in the loft.

 

[ALEC1]

upgradeME there is a whole blog about this boiler which you have contributed too so I guess you full well know the issues at least on the bigger boilers...

 

[simond]

Did you use the 'new' 618, available from April 2nd? These have a much wider modulation ratio and quieter running.

We put in a couple of new model 630s the week before last and they are sooo quiet!

 

[kevindgas]

personally i would stick with the 392 over the 430 i have had no problems with them, the 430 well thats a whole story in its self

set up so the 2 zones can run together rather than hot water priority

set D.77 to 12 otherwise you will get excessive noise issues when in hot water only (comes factory set at 30!)
I set D.0 to 1.5 x radiators i have this seems to be about right

 

[simond]

You can't set the D numbers for max output on the new model, it is disabled and unnecessary due to the wider mod ratio on the boiler.

Which one has he got?

NB: VRC430 is obsolete, replaced by VRC470 in Dec 2011.

 

[kevindgas]

it says 418 in the OP!

 

[ALEC1]

418 is a boiler 430 is a controller..

still available in the UK

Kevin I set my heating to 1kw per rad works fine too...