Veneered door splintering on me

[Deleted member 174758]

If the core has to be exposed e.g. gotta be planed a lot what's the best way to treat the chipboard core?

Relip the door.

 

[^woody^]

The thing is, the bottom cover lip/timber stiffens the core and stops it from bowing.

You can't fit a replacement lip as the veneer on the face wont cover it - well you can fit it but it will stand out a mile.

Route in a stiffening bar or suchlike? And then fit an edge strip/veneer on the bottom to seal it?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The thing is, the bottom cover lip/timber stiffens the core and stops it from bowing.

Maybe, maybe not. The main function of the lippings at the sides is yp give ypu something to chop and screw the ironmongery (hinges, locks, etc) into. Top and bottom lippings are often softwood

You can't fit a replacement lip as the veneer on the face wont cover it - well you can fit it but it will stand out a mile.

If it is the same species and only a few millimetres thick it may wellbe acceptable if finished to match the rest of thhe door

Route in a stiffening bar or suchlike?

Are you being serious here? Is that what you, personally, do? Or is this just conjecture?

And then fit an edge strip/veneer on the bottom to seal it?

Isn't an edge strip going to stick out like a sore thumb, too? (BTW "lipping" and "edge strip"- surely the same thing?) And a layer of veneer on the bottom of the door is always going to get shredded and break up over time because it is thin (sub 1mm mostly) and has absolutely no strength.

 

[Keitai]

£120 for the Souber DBB door lock morticer

Seriously, it makes life so much easier, do 5 locks and it may have paid for itself.

Also consider buying a chisel sharpener...

Just bought the souber DBB. The guy in shop said my 18v Dewalt codeless combi drill might not have the power for it though or would strain the battery. Recommended percussion drill like below maybe mains powered

e.g. Metabo one

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Just bought the souber DBB. The guy in shop said my 18v Dewalt codeless combi drill might not have the power for it though or would strain the battery

TBH the guy in the shop had a valid point (or rather points) - if all you are working on is softwood or chipboard core doors, you have a top of the (trade) 18 volt line cordless drill fitted with a freshly charged 5 or 6Ah battery and you aren't trying to chop out really thick (32mm plus) lock bodies, then from experience you'll probably be OK. For comparison I often use a Makita DHP481 18 volt combi drill (2100rpm, 125Nm - model replaced by DHP486, same speed, 130Nm) in chipboard core fire doors and it works reasonably well if a tad slowly. OTOH my other drill, a lower spec DHP484 (2000 rpm, 54Nm - not too bad a spec), really can't hack it on the DBB as it hasn't got the torque of the bigger drill causing it to slow down then stall

On hardwood doors, for large/thick locks (e.g DDA locks) and for deep drilling (e.g. for Perko-style door closers like the Astra 4004) you really need a large, heavy duty corded drill. My own corded drill happens to be a fairly old Bosch GSB21-2 (1100 watts, 3000rpm) and it powers through softwood and chipboard core doors a lot faster than the cordless can (2 to 3 times as fast IMHO) - but even with that drill, on solid oak doors, the safety clutch does cut in from time to time, especially if doing a job like I was on a few weeks ago where I was edge boring solid oak doors using a 32mm diameter boring bit and the long boring bar to create 290mm deep holes to take the aforementioned Astra 4004 door closers. I'd be sceptical of the cordless drilling being able to do that anywhere near as well (I have actually tried it once and the drill tends to stall or the safety clutch activates frequently - the battery also gets pretty warm)

As you can see, those closers ar big so and so's and they need to be drilled on a centre line 22mm in from the knuckle edge of the door and parallel to the face of the door which leaves only 6mm of "meat" between the edge of the hole and the outer face of the door - not something you want to get wrong on £2k oak doors or irreplaceable historic doors, and why for multiple doors like the ones I was doing the Souber jig is indispensible. On this case a special Souber offset drill guide body was used as we don't want to self centre like you'd normally do and I had enough to do to justify the expense

So, if all you are doing is fairly small basic locks into softwood or chipboard doors your existing drill might work providing your drill is high torque, has 2k rpm plus speed and has a freshly charged 5 or 6 Ah battery in good nick (and not a 5 year old clunker). You can always try it out on a piece of 4 x 2in softwood and see for yourself. But if you are doing a lot of hardwood doors you'll need the corded drill

Also bear in mind that you'll probably end up needing to buy another 2 or 3 cutters for lock bodies over time and that if you want to bore out for tubular latches the HSS boring bits are faster and less hassle to use than the standard lock mortise bits. Either way just the self-centring of the standard Souber jig is well worth the money in time saved alone IMHO

 

[Keitai]

TBH the guy in the shop had a valid point (or rather points) - if all you are working on is softwood or chipboard core doors, you have a top of the (trade) 18 volt line cordless drill fitted with a freshly charged 5 or 6Ah battery and you aren't trying to chop out really thick (32mm plus) lock bodies, then from experience you'll probably be OK. For comparison I often use a Makita DHP481 18 volt combi drill (2100rpm, 125Nm - model replaced by DHP486, same speed, 130Nm) in chipboard core fire doors and it works reasonably well if a tad slowly. OTOH my other drill, a lower spec DHP484 (2000 rpm, 54Nm - not too bad a spec), really can't hack it on the DBB as it hasn't got the torque of the bigger drill causing it to slow down then stall

On hardwood doors, for large/thick locks (e.g DDA locks) and for deep drilling (e.g. for Perko-style door closers like the Astra 4004) you really need a large, heavy duty corded drill. My own corded drill happens to be a fairly old Bosch GSB21-2 (1100 watts, 3000rpm) and it powers through softwood and chipboard core doors a lot faster than the cordless can (2 to 3 times as fast IMHO) - but even with that drill, on solid oak doors, the safety clutch does cut in from time to time, especially if doing a job like I was on a few weeks ago where I was edge boring solid oak doors using a 32mm diameter boring bit and the long boring bar to create 290mm deep holes to take the aforementioned Astra 4004 door closers. I'd be sceptical of the cordless drilling being able to do that anywhere near as well (I have actually tried it once and the drill tends to stall or the safety clutch activates frequently - the battery also gets pretty warm)

View attachment 312197

As you can see, those closers ar big so and so's and they need to be drilled on a centre line 22mm in from the knuckle edge of the door and parallel to the face of the door which leaves only 6mm of "meat" between the edge of the hole and the outer face of the door - not something you want to get wrong on £2k oak doors or irreplaceable historic doors, and why for multiple doors like the ones I was doing the Souber jig is indispensible. On this case a special Souber offset drill guide body was used as we don't want to self centre like you'd normally do and I had enough to do to justify the expense

So, if all you are doing is fairly small basic locks into softwood or chipboard doors your existing drill might work providing your drill is high torque, has 2k rpm plus speed and has a freshly charged 5 or 6 Ah battery in good nick (and not a 5 year old clunker). You can always try it out on a piece of 4 x 2in softwood and see for yourself. But if you are doing a lot of hardwood doors you'll need the corded drill

Also bear in mind that you'll probably end up needing to buy another 2 or 3 cutters for lock bodies over time and that if you want to bore out for tubular latches the HSS boring bits are faster and less hassle to use than the standard lock mortise bits. Either way just the self-centring of the standard Souber jig is well worth the money in time saved alone IMHO

So I wont need to use my marking gauge to mark the centre

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Actually, I used my mortise gauge to mark out where the face plates of those Perkos went before using a router to hog out most of the waste - being offset and few in number I didn't want to risk effing up some very expensive doors. In any case I still chop out stuff by hand from time to time and the Souber can't do stuff like cutting out recesses gor flush bolts, etc. So not quite as useless as you think

 

[robinbanks]

If the core has to be exposed e.g. gotta be planed a lot what's the best way to treat the chipboard core?

Fix the problems with the doorcase instead!

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Fix the problems with the doorcase instead!

 

[opps]

Also bear in mind that you'll probably end up needing to buy another 2 or 3 cutters for lock bodies over time and that if you want to bore out for tubular latches the HSS boring bits are faster and less hassle to use than the standard lock mortise bits. Either way just the self-centring of the standard Souber jig is well worth the money in time saved alone IMHO

Why are the cheaper HSS bits faster than than the (supplied) carbide bits?

Since purchasing my Souber, the vast majority of the few locks that I have fitted are chip board cores. My 4000 rpm cordless Metabo has been fine, but yeah, you have a good point about using it on an oak door.

The primary reason for buying the cordless Metabo was that I found my corded Metalbo to be too long and heavy. From memory it is about 13" long. I struggled to hold it level whilst using my free hand to pull the boring mechanism up and down, I also had to use my hip to apply pressure.

I struggled to find an excuse to purchase a corded drill that would only ever be used for the Souber, but I had no problem with spending £300 on a cordless, the reasoning being that I can use it for other tasks.

 

[opps]

Just bought the souber DBB. The guy in shop said my 18v Dewalt codeless combi drill might not have the power for it though or would strain the battery. Recommended percussion drill like below maybe mains powered

e.g. Metabo one
View attachment 312189

I know that people often take the pee out of you, but I for one congratulate you taking advice onboard and buying the Souber.

I am still concerned that you may be charging "going" rates for jobs that you are not qualified to do, but I respect the fact that you will ask for advice and defer to the pros here. Many others would not.

Best of luck.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Why are the cheaper HSS bits faster than than the (supplied) carbide bits?

They are different beasts - the carbide tipped cutters are designed to be used in a side to side router-like motion to produce an elongated lock body recess, but TBH they aren't that good (fast) at boring, at least not in hardwood, qnd they clig up in really deep holes - the 4-lobe HSS drilling bits are designed to bore around hole in the edge of a door with no side to side motion (think tubular latches, Perko and Astra integral door closers etc). An extreme example of this is the edge drilling required for an Astra closer - 32mm diameter x 280mm deep at 22mmin from the hinge knuckle edge. You'd go nuts trying to do that with a TCT bit (believe me, I tried)

I know that people often take the pee out of you, but I for one congratulate you taking advice onboard and buying the Souber.

Well said!