WAR - US vs Iran from Iraq

[Balenza]

Stulz
I suspect the greater majority of the citizens in the UK would vote for "troops out now" if their were such a vote.
You can have the best of intentions in Iraq for the next 50 years if you wish but the end result will still be a power struggle between the warring factions and the stronger side will win and then impose dictatorship rule just as before.
These people will cut the lining out of each other due to sectarian bitterness among themselves .
So that puts you and outsiders alike , a long long way down the scale in terms of significance.
Afganistan is no different albeit the people are not as divided as in Iraq. The Russians spent several years in the place and were humiliated in the end and withdrew just like we should now and cut our losses.

Its solely due to the weakness of the leadership in the UK that has led to this mess. Were a laughing stock on the international stage at the moment. Look at Beckett. What a disgrace that she should hold high office.
Just look at the government thet sent you out there Stulz.
You are nothing more than a bullet catcher to them only too willing to imprision you on a charge of murder trying to avoid one of those bullets.

 

[Stulz]

Stulz
I suspect the greater majority of the citizens in the UK would vote for "troops out now" if their were such a vote.
You can have the best of intentions in Iraq for the next 50 years if you wish but the end result will still be a power struggle between the warring factions and the stronger side will win and then impose dictatorship rule just as before.
These people will cut the lining out of each other due to sectarian bitterness among themselves .
So that puts you and outsiders alike , a long long way down the scale in terms of significance.
Afganistan is no different albeit the people are not as divided as in Iraq. The Russians spent several years in the place and were humiliated in the end and withdrew just like we should now and cut our losses.

Its solely due to the weakness of the leadership in the UK that has led to this mess. Were a laughing stock on the international stage at the moment. Look at Beckett. What a disgrace that she should hold high office.
Just look at the government thet sent you out there Stulz.
You are nothing more than a bullet catcher to them only too willing to imprision you on a charge of murder trying to avoid one of those bullets.

Perhaps if you had actually spent some significant time there you may realise how wrong you actually are. I appreciate that this is the impression News reports and the Government like to paint, but actually it is quite wrong, certainly for Afghanistan.

Iraq has the potential to fragment, I agree, but a nation does not need to collapse into anarchy and war to fragment, look at the Czech and Slovak Republics for example. I agree there isn't the religious tensions that exist in Iraq, and these do make it difficult, but difficult is not the same as impossible.

The biggest problem the Iraqi's face is interference from outside, and I do not just mean the presence of allied troops or western politicial interference. It is in the Middle East's interests for Iraq, or someone else, to be unstable, to be the focus of attention for the west and for the extremists, it means they do not have to face the problems and allows, in many cases, virtual or outright dictatortships to flourish unopposed by either national groups or the international community.

Should Iraq be capable of developing a more even handed democracy, that would be bad news for the likes of Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Iran, Egypt and the majority of the so called leaders in that part of the world. The majority of these leaders stay in power by oppression, and democracy is an anathomer to them, it is counter to their interests so they will undermine any and every effort to create it.

It is this simple fact that many, including the Politicians, do not understand about the Middle East.

 

[rommy]

I do hope I'm wrong,but my opinion is that the middle east countries are suspicious of America's intentions in Iraq.I think that they will do everything to disrupt Iraq becoming stabilized.I think they would see the
Iraq government as a puppet for the Americans.

 

[Richardp]

I do hope I'm wrong,but my opinion is that the middle east countries are suspicious of America's intentions in Iraq.I think that they will do everything to disrupt Iraq becoming stabilized.I think they would see the
Iraq government as a puppet for the Americans.

not just middle the east countries, I'm very suspicious of America's intentions in Iraq.

 

[Balenza]

Stulz wrote

The biggest problem the Iraqi's face is interference from outside

Now you are beginning to talk some sense.

 

[rommy]

I do agree with you Richardp.If we don't trust our Politicians motives how can we expect the middle east countries to trust them.It's all about oil.
As I have said in a previous post, Blair tells us that the Iraqi people should live without fear and go about their lives in a normal way and the country should be a democracy then why has he ignored the plight in Zimbabwe?Many white farmer and their black workers were killed under Robert Mugabe orders to take back their land.Now the farms are not producing.The people are staving under a ruthless dictator.And what has
Blair done?You guest it .

 

[Stulz]

Stulz wrote

The biggest problem the Iraqi's face is interference from outside

Now you are beginning to talk some sense.

I have been talking it in every one of my posts. I would suggest that it is highly likely I know more about the region than most here. I have served the majority of my 22 years in the Middle East in one form or another. My Father was Jordanian, my Mother an Iranian Kurd and I was actually born in Iran but brought to the UK in 1976 at the not so tender age of 13.

I have family in Jordan, Iran and even in Kurd controlled Iraq.

I have a vested interest in a solution to the Middle East issues and have made a point of studying the Politics of the region, a having spent a lot of time on the ground out there I have had the opportunity to learn first hand rather than from books as a sole source.

Before anyone bothers to ask the question, Yes I am Muslim, No I do not agree that what the scum do is in the name of Islam, or anything decent, and I am appalled that the Iranians, who have the influence and power to solve many of the problems out there, fail to do so by playing silly political games so the leadership look good to the Iranian People, the majority of which don't care.

Many more young Muslims should join the British Forces and see the situation with open eyes for themselves. Of course it would have been far better had we not got involved in Iraq, a terrible mistake was made, but now we need to make the best of a terrible mistake and show the world the real evil and from where it originates. It is easy to blame the US, who do make a LOT of mistakes on the international stage, but they are not solely to blame. The stupidity of many western and middle east leaders is equally to blame.