Warning notice for new boiler and gas supply turned off

[PullerGas]

I love threads like this.
It freely demonstrates how f.cked up the gas industry really is!!
It's polluted by a public that don't care about their own safety & installers who've had five minutes training on a Mickey Mouse course. A match made in heaven!!

 

[Colin973]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I should clarify a few points as I think I have been misunderstood on a few things.

I was having a new kitchen fitted along with a new boiler, the kitchen fitter recommended the 2 plumbers to me (I thought they were working for themselves/had their own company) and did not know that they worked for said large company (not BG) when they came to do the work but on seeing the did, was naive in putting trust in them being reputable/doing good work and yes it was a cash weekend job.

The gas supply is NOT on 22mm, they have connected the 15mm pipe from the boiler to the original supply (15mm) from the meter at floor level below the boiler. If I only have a boiler and no other gas appliances is 15mm pipe acceptable? Could this mean the issue may still be with the governor and what is a govenor?

I was given a 'Gas safety record' certificate by them but have not received any building regulations paper work from gas safe so it is fair to assume it was not registered.

Re - Steelmason - a moot point considering the lack of information, I'm happy to provide further information, please advise as I'm unsure what information you require?

 

[denso13]

Report it https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/h...ts-report-an-illegal/report-suspect-gas-work/

 

[Colin973]

Update

I have now managed to contact one of the plumbers, I have NOT told him that the boiler has a warning notice or that the gas has been turned off but just that it is losing bar pressure to which he has said there is probably a leak and he can add a liquid solution to the system to seal any leak. I would be grateful if anyone could tell me the regulations re - the pipe size that should be installed from the meter to the boiler 22 or 28 mm for a (Vaillant Ecotec 835) and the distance from the boiler it can downsize to a 15 mm? Also in respect of the inlet pressure which is currently reading 10mb, what should it be? I would like to be as well informed as a possible so that when he arrives I can have the answers for any excuses he may try to provide.

 

[FiremanT]

A moot point considering the lack of information you have supplied.
Low inlet working pressure is not always a cause for concern and certainly doesn't warrant an 'at risk' notice to be issued should combustion be within tolerance..

10mb ?

 

[gasmanstu72]

have a look through the installation manual (assuming they left you one)

i had a quick look online and found this on page 19 of the installation instructions:
• Connect a gas supply pipe of not less than 15 mm diameter to the copper tail.
• Tighten all connections. (Ensure the gas supply pipework is adequately sized such that a 20 mbar gas pressure is available at the boiler inlet at full flow rate).

i would interpret that to mean you can fit it with a 15mm gas supply but as long as you get 20mbar on high rate.
however to get 20mbar inlet on a 35KW combi on high rate you would most definitely need 22mm even if the meter is just below it.

so by the sounds of it, your installers haven't checked the pressure (or maybe they have and ignored it). there could also be a problem with the meter govenor / pipework as 10mbar is very low.

 

[FiremanT]

Update

I have now managed to contact one of the plumbers, I have NOT told him that the boiler has a warning notice or that the gas has been turned off but just that it is losing bar pressure to which he has said there is probably a leak and he can add a liquid solution to the system to seal any leak. I would be grateful if anyone could tell me the regulations re - the pipe size that should be installed from the meter to the boiler 22 or 28 mm for a (Vaillant Ecotec 835) and the distance from the boiler it can downsize to a 15 mm? Also in respect of the inlet pressure which is currently reading 10mb, what should it be? I would like to be as well informed as a possible so that when he arrives I can have the answers for any excuses he may try to provide.

Why did you not tell him the true situation? I suppose you did not want him to prepare an excuse? Fair enough, but when he arrives and sees the label, he is going to wonder what else you have up your sleeve, and be guarded in his response. He will distrust you as much as you do he.
IMO

 

[Steelmasons]

10mb ?

I've left boilers operating with inlet working pressure as low as 3mb.....no issue with combustion so what would be the reason to classify appliance as AR???

 

[Bunnyman]

Im afraid steel its in vaillants instructions, 13mb minimum for the new ones , we know they work ok but thems the rules

 

[Steelmasons]

Im afraid steel its in vaillants instructions, 13mb minimum for the new ones , we know they work ok but thems the rules

That might be the case bunny but what would be the reason for classifying as At Risk? ... At Risk of what FFS???
WB stress that a 22mm gas supply should be connected to gas iso valve ... Really???... Would you deem it AR should a 15mm supply be used???

 

[denso13]

he can add a liquid solution to the system to seal any leak

Don't do that, get the leaks fixed.

 

[ollski]

That might be the case bunny but what would be the reason for classifying as At Risk? ... At Risk of what FFS???
WB stress that a 22mm gas supply should be connected to gas iso valve ... Really???... Would you deem it AR should a 15mm supply be used???

They updated that a year or so ago, worcester now say 15 is ok as long as you achieve min 18mb.

Low pressure affecting appliance operation on any appliance on the gas supply is at risk

 

[Steelmasons]

Low pressure affecting appliance operation on any appliance on the gas supply is at risk

If low pressure has an effect on combustion then obviously AR...read what I wrote..

 

[Colin973]

I do have the installation manual and have even downloaded a new one as page 19 does not say anything about using a 15mm diameter pipe, I'm thinking you may be looking at a different installation manual, this is the one for my boiler.
https://www.vaillant.co.uk/download...25-832-835-838-installation-manual-664853.pdf

I have no intention of getting the liquid solution added, I just want him to turn up so I can get some answers and get it fixed/working safely. Like most people not in the industry I am not familiar with regulations or how things should be installed and finding this all very confusing. The Vailliant engineer who issued the AR notice simply said that the reason was for 'low inlet working pressure of 10mb' and that remedial action required of 'gas pipe size to be increased' was required. Was this overkill on his part as some of you seen to be saying it is not worthy of an AR notice?

The plumbers/3rd engineer have completed the 'commissioning checklist' in the back of the installation guide and put down 23mb gas inlet pressure in central heating mode and 24mb for domestic hot water mode!!!

None of this is adding up to me, did they falsify these figures, is the low mb as a result of the pipe only being 15 mm, do I have a gas leak or is the drop in pressure due to a water leak?

 

[Steelmasons]

They updated that a year or so ago, worcester now say 15 is ok as long as you achieve min 18mb.

Before the update would you have deemed the appliance AR??
So you carry out a service on the WB and happen to browse the installation manual that has been left on site with the end user , would you At Risk the appliance due to the manual stating that a 22mm supply must connected into iso valve although 15mm has been used????