Washing Machine drum is giving me elecric shocks.

[tristandav]

Thanks John

You have been very patient and I am gratefull. I followed the Y/G wire from the electrical socket where the washing machine links up. It goes into the next room through the wall where a firteplace use to be behind the aga. We have had the kichen redone and the fitter is coming to finish a few thing tomorrow night. He changed a few of the plugs in that area to fit the kichetn so may remember seeing the wire and where it goes.

I will test the main switch and see waht happen. Wife wants me to wait till later to do it. I will do as you say and write down what all the switches link to and label it.

I beleive that one pair of cable from the Henley Block is going upsatirs to the flat. I followed this up towards the right hand corner of the box and it links to another fuse box upstairs which is shown below in the pic. Very strange!

Thanks for all your advice. I will definetly ask the electrician before we get him in if he is qualified and part of a self certification scheme; which one; how long he has been a member; and what name he is registered under Where do I check his details to see if they are correct? Thanks again

 

[JohnD]

upstairs flat appears to have no meter, and supplier's fuse disconnected. Do you own the flat?

Also it looks like the G&Y has been cut off and not connected up there

The registers of competent persons - will be easier when we know which one to look for - there are a few - I will see if I can find a link.


try
http://www.communities.gov.uk/plann...petentpersonsschemes/existingcompetentperson/

http://www.communities.gov.uk/planningandbuilding/buildingregulations/competentpersonsschemes/


but there are some which are not a government website so might be a disguised advertising site.

 

[tristandav]

Yes we now own the whole house and the flat use to be where the grandpa use to live. It was once a seperate flat with it own meter. NPower took the meter out when we integrated the flat back to the house a few years ago. It will hopefully become my office next year.

If the Y/G line upstairs in not linked then that would mean all the apliences in the flat upsatirs are not earthed??? Thats worrying.

The house is fairly large and I must say every new works we get done we find new problems- mainly that the current system-plimbing, oil gas pipes ects are all iligal. Bit by bit we are getting in done.

We have tried many times to get electricians to rewire the house. They always come and do a few things and promise to come back and never do. We have tried to get so many diferent electricians. I think maybe its a too daunting job for them and they rather get easier cash on simpler jobs elsewhere, -although we are prepared to pay good money to get the house done. Especialy important now that we have a little boy and a new one on the way in January. Thank you very much for your help will check the links that youve sent tomorrow.

 

[jossper]

2 questions:
Do you only get shocks from the drum of the washing machine, not the outer casing & metalwork?

Is it by any chance a washer/dryer?

Thankss
Paul

 

[bernardgreen]

Yes we now own the whole house and the flat use to be where the grandpa use to live. It was once a seperate flat with it own meter. NPower took the meter out when we integrated the flat back to the house a few years ago.

And removed the earth for the flat when they took out the meter. Who ever put the tails in between the two meter locations should have provided an earth "tail" as well as live and neutral.

I saw this once when an "au pair" flat was "absorbed" back into the main house. The PME earth in the flat was the main earth and fed both flat and house.

It was seen as gross negligence by the electrician who put in the tails and negligent by the people who took out the flats's incomer and meter and did not inform the owner of the danger of the missing earth.

Needs fixing urgently..... And check there is a earth at the cut out on the incomer to the meter

 

[jossper]

Thats not necessarily the case - if you look, there are 3 green/yellows leaving the wylex cu - one fairly chunky - could be a main earth. In any case that doesn't explain why contact to ground via the washing machine, even if it isn't earthed doesn't trip one or other of the RCDs. I agree the earthing arangements need checking by a competent person. As its a farm it could well be TT.

 

[tristandav]

Hi to answer the question in the last messages:

John-I tried swicthing the main switch to off. This had no effect. I went round the house to see what had switched off but could not find anything. I have no idea if thats normal.

Jossper-The machine is a washing machine and has no dryer fascility.

The shocks are only when I touch the drum. I do not get a shock when I touch the machine on any other outside part.

Sorry for my ignorance what does TT mean? Is it (Too Troublemsom)?

 

[JohnD]

TT is one kind of main earthing

I couldn't make out what sort you have from thr pics

this may help you identify what you have got

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:earthing_supply_types_and_bonding:earthing_arrangements

especially if you follow the G&Ys and see where they go

 

[Spark123]

TT is the earthing type when you have an earth rod burried outside your house and don't use one provided by your electricity supplier.

 

[jossper]

Tristandav, from what you said about being a farmhouse I wondered if your electricity supply is overhead, like a telephone line? If it is, you almost certainly have TT supply. This means that you have to provide your own earth, & on farms in particular this earth can get damaged or disconnected.

The fact that you only get shocks from the drum of the washing machine and not any other part makes me think the problem may lie with the washing machine.

 

[securespark]

As soon as I saw the intake, I guessed it could be TT.

You really need to check the impedance of the socket before you go further.

 

[markocosic]

The fact that you only get shocks from the drum of the washing machine and not any other part makes me think the problem may lie with the washing machine.

White goods are white, and paint isn't a bad insulator. Drums are not.

It isn't a dryer, so it isn't just static.

Drum should be earthed via the bearings to the chassis, and even if not, any fault in the appliance would be more likely to make the chassis live rather than the drum.

The RCD appears to work, so either the washing machine is not wired through the RCD or the shock is too small to trip it but big enough to hurt. Suspect the former - if I'm being advised not to RCD such appliances here than I suspect it's common practice.

Either way, the earth should be good enough such that even if the live drops on it, you'll not get a belt. Clearly the earthing here is no good.

Either the socket earth is bad and the washing machine is toast (earth doesn't look too bad at the socket end - found where the other is yet?) or the whole building earth is bad and the fault could be "anywhere" (but if this were the case, you'd expect to get a belt off the plumbing and anything/everything else too?) If you're unlucky - both, heh!

Please don't let the sproglet near any plumbing or electricals in the house until this is fixed?

<disclaimer> complete amateur </disclaimer>

 

[JohnD]

...if I'm being advised not to RCD such appliances here than I suspect it's common practice...

are you saying you've been advised not to RCD a washing machine

 

[markocosic]

Aye. Asked at a local wholesaler when you guys suggested a new CU was in order and the oik behind the desk hated RCDs because 'they're always tripping' and suggested a CU with a switch only.

At that point I left sharpish and came back to ask you guys where to get 'em ! ( chose to ignore some admittedly, but that's more personal paranoia... )

Certainly doesn't sound like it's being fed from the RCD - as well as a fault with earthing somewhere - though it could just be a small current, as even somethign like a telephone line will tingle nicely with bare feet.

 

[JohnD]

RCDs trip when you have a fault. the cure is not to remove the RCD but to fix the fault.

Except on some things like immersions and cookers which are prone to slight leakage which need not be dangerous if they are properly earthed and are on fixed wiring (no plug and socket) so you should not get a shock from them.

A 30mA 30mS trip is so fast that you may not even feel it, so there is something wrong if he is getting a perceptible shock and the RCD is not tripping.

I don't know what is wrong though.