Water pressure and flow question in the block of flats

[alext05]

Perhaps your best option would be to persuade the estate management to drop your bedroom ceiling and sound-proof above it, or to wear ear-plugs

Not sure it will help as the tank sits on the concrete/metal combo on top of our ceiling and it feels that sound gets transmitted to the walls as well as the result. And I am not keen on it at all, as the ceiling is not that high in a small room.

I was more thinking about redirecting the flow towards the wall to dampen the noise while maintaining the gap to the water, to comply with the regulations. Would that work if rigged using aluminium sheet, for example?

 

[alext05]

Easily sorted ! if you google- Keraflow delayed action float valves - you'll find all you need , even a site visit to specify a valve. (There are other makes available but Keraflow came up first ) The principle is that the water level drops a certain amount, then the valve opens full bore and closes when the set level is reached. Not like a conventional valve that will dribble for hours ( if not constantly ) making a noise.

Thanks, I'll ask them if they considered the solution. Would this mean shorter periods of filling time with louder intensity, as opposed to quieter but non-stop filling of the water?

 

[Nige F]

I would say so and particularly overnight - ie when residents are in bed - there could be no filling because only a few toilets would be filling from the roof tank. It all depends on the tank size and number of outlets, and their usage/

 

[alext05]

Thanks, Nige. I'll definitely enquire about that. Hopefully they will allow us to test the valve, rather than simply committing to it irreversibly.

My only worry that with this solution it would be very loud early in the morning, 5-6 am when everyone starts waking up, meaning that all overnight gains would be wiped out just when you would have the deepest sleep.

But it does feel at the moment as if the water runs all night non-stop. It's not very loud but it is audible enough to keep me awake. Very frustrating to be the only flat affected by the communal service provision.

 

[Madrab]

If the cistern is installed correctly with a proper fitting lid and fully lagged/insulated then there should be very little noise, though there is also an option to box the whole cistern in and line it with kingspan/insulation with a hinged sealed insulated lid for access. It would then be totally enclosed and there should be no noise worth bothering about.

It really should be just a case of a bit of smart thinking to get round the problem but there would be an extra cost of course.

 

[alext05]

Thanks, Madrab. I believe that's exactly what they have additionally done already - insulating the water tank in soundproofing material.

However, the sound without the encasing was very loud and constant, and while now we have soundproofing from the sides and the top, there is no soundproofing from the bottom and it feels that the sound waves or shock waves go through the concrete and the metal drip tray directly to the ceiling and the walls. It did make it a bit quieter I would say, by perhaps preventing the spread to the other bedrooms, but our main bedroom is still affected as the tank, unfortunately, sits directly above it.

I think the best way to solve this would be to prevent the splashing from happening. But to find the way to do that while complying with the water regulations is certainly a challenge, since a silencer pipe cannot be fitted to the valve/water inlet.

That's why I was thinking if the splashing into the water can be prevented by redirecting the flow onto the tank wall to dampen it, for example, it might stop the problem. Do you think redirecting the flow a) will make it less noisy, and b) water regulations compliant and achievable? Thanks

 

[Madrab]

I think the best option then would be to relocate the tank as there is very little else in the way of diverting the flow, you can do and keep with the regs.

 

[dilalio]

I think you’ll have to develop immunity to the sound... it will come as sleep is a necessity and will overcome.

For an example: have recently started sleeping in our new loft conversion... at first, all sorts of new sounds disturbed my sleep... wind, rain, birds and foxes shagging... once they have been internalised, sleep comes as it needs

 

[alext05]

I think the best option then would be to relocate the tank as there is very little else in the way of diverting the flow, you can do and keep with the regs.

Thanks. I don't think that is possible. That area, unfortunately, seems the most suitable one for the purpose, but I will ask. I guess the cost would be massive too and have to be justified.

I had an update today, and the have decided to install Keraflo valve, that was mentioned by Nige.

I have then spoken to Keraflo myself and have asked if their valve would be noisier than the normal one and the technician I spoke said that it shouldn't be, so hoping that it is true.

I have then spoken to WRAS asking for advice if I can get exemption from the water regulations and install a silencer pipe, and they said that water regulations are enforced by local supplier, Thames Water in my case, and they can decide themselves if that would be permissible, as they would have to do maintenance, ect.

I haven't spoken to the Thames Water about it yet, but might do so tomorrow after speaking to the project manager. This would be great if allowed, but not sure if the chances of that happening are high. Has anyone got any experience of getting an exemption from the regulations and can advise on the best way of achieving it?

Interestingly, I was warned by WRAS that if the works are undeclared to the local water supplier it might cause all sorts of issues. I would have thought that the local authority would declare these works automatically, but apparently sometimes they do not and that can cause all sorts of problems. Not sure what all this about.

 

[alext05]

By the way, here are the pictures of the tank. Any comments about the tank, piping or the valve?

IMG_0717

• alext05
• 27 Mar 2018

IMG_0721

• alext05
• 27 Mar 2018

IMG_0722

• alext05
• 27 Mar 2018

IMG_0723

• alext05
• 27 Mar 2018

 

[dilalio]

I take it the work is in progress and unfinished?

Pic2: cold main could do with rubber shoes inside the Munson rings which will deaden sound travel down the pipework and allow for expansion/contraction and obviously will need to lagged.

 

[alext05]

Thanks, it was at the time when the pictures were taken about 3-4 months ago. I don't have the recent ones.

I believe the have done lagging since then and added soundproofing around the tank.

Re rubber shoes inside the Munsen rings: Do you mean rubber rings around the pipe, as it looks they might have them? Of rubber dampeners in the place where Munsen rings connect/stand in the drip tray?

 

[dilalio]

Rubber rings inside munsen rings on the incoming main... on the wall mounts.

 

[alext05]

Thanks, I'll ask if they have been added at the later date, but I feel they might have not. Is it a requirement to have them or a good practice, or both?

 

[dilalio]

Just belt n braces.