Weather Compensation and Outdoor Temperatures

[Agile]

Thanks for the explanation.

How difficult/expensive is WC to retrofit to an existing system? Can it be used with all boilers ie system, combi etc?

Thanks

It can be added for the cost of the sensor ( plus labour ) to a few boilers with the right insides ( Biasi, Viessmann and Intergas etc ).

Others like later Vaillants need an expensive controller!

Tony

 

[ALEC1]

its only viessmanns 200s and vaillants that need the controller, all the rest work with standard numpty controls...

 

[muggles]

I also have many customers with the offset parameter of their programmable thermostats set to give a warmer reading.

Thought it was just me that did that...

 

[JBPHS]

its only viessmanns 200s and vaillants that need the controller, all the rest work with standard numpty controls...

1) How much are said controllers to supply and install?
2) Do you only fit them on certain sized properties?

James.

 

[ALEC1]

they come with the boiler...and cost around £175 if my but you don't need other controls...so a bit more expensive

they are brand specific so in vaillants case the controller retrofit any vaillant, same with viessmanns.

retrofitting if you have a vaillant or a viessmann would cost the same, but its worth noting that if you had system boiler you would benefit from using the cylinder sensor and would need a wiring centre from vaillant, where as viessmann the boiler diverter valve has to be in use.

 

[JBPHS]

A £17 external temperature using 'standard numpty controls' will pay for itself much sooner than £175.

James.

 

[Norcon]

What bells and whistles do the "numpty controls" have?

Can they match this.....
■ Demand-dependent heating circuit pump and burner off control
■ Adjustment of a variable heating limit
■ Anti-seizing pump protection
■ Heating system frost protection
■ Integral diagnostic system
■ Maintenance display
■ Cylinder thermostat with priority
■ Control of solar DHW heating and central heating backup in conjunction
with the solar control module, type SM1
■ Display of the solar energy yield
■ Auxiliary function for DHW heating (short-term heating to a higher
temperature)
■ Screed drying program
■ External starting and blocking (in conjunction with extension EA1)

Will the "numpty controls" meet the stringent requirements of DIN EN 12831 for calculating the heating load?
http://www.tu-cottbus.de/LSTA/_downloads/DIN12831_SuR.pdf

That screed drying program is a nifty addition on its own. Plenty of numpties fire up the boiler on ufh systems and before you know it the screed has curled up the walls and has more cracks in it than a labour party election manifesto!
I'm sure Tony could pull something out from the back of a tv and solder on a few resistors and do all of the above but with these controllers available readily off the shelf then hardly much point.

 

[Dan Robinson]

What's wrong with turning the stat and/our blending valve down?

With an HRE 18/24, Cm927 and a weather sensor there are next to no things in that list that can't be achieved with a little coming sense.


Next you'll be telling us this high efficiency pump ****** iis a good thing.

 

[vulcancontinental]

One manufacturer (vokera) claims that the condensing effect will save 4-7% of a gas bill! Danfoss reckon stabilising room temperatures saves about 10-12%, and Viessman reckon you can save around 20%..with their advanced controls.

It WAS you I heard snoring in the course Alec, tch, tch!

The theoretical potential additional (latent) heat that can be harvested within the heat exchanger when the condensing boiler is actually condensing is between 10-11%.

In reality you cannot reduce the flue temperature to the incoming combustion air temperature so some heat will escape through the flue.

Therefore when, and only when, the boiler is condensing within the exchanger due to a low return temperature for that period only an additional 5-7% improvement is possible.

If you can't get a north facing location for the sensor, even if you can, stick it under the eaves (or somewhere suited) where the sun doesn't shine.

Most boilers have the software on the PCB's, the external sensor is simply providing an additional reading for it to work on.

Norcon, no numpty controls do all that, there's no need, the boiler software does it with the exception of solar; well ours do anyway - and FOC except for the sensor (or Open Therm (£60) if you want remote control of the boiler).

It's disingenuous to refer to Germany. Germany insulates it's properties far better than we do so the rate of heat loss from our buildings is greater. WC certainly makes a more comfortable environment but in older high heat loss properties it's too expensive so best to time it rather than leave it on 24 hours a day.

Don't believe what a manufacturer says is going to be the case in your house, it's always best to worst comparisons and the very worst at that. 2-3% per annum is what I'd estimate it to be but you cannot quantify comfort or customer peace of mind which should also be included in an assessment.

 

[ALEC1]

One thing is clear though if you don't have the technology you will never benefit from it.

Dave I wasn't asleep on your class it was music to my ears...

 

[vulcancontinental]

One thing is clear though if you don't have the technology you will never benefit from it.

Dave I wasn't asleep on your class it was music to my ears...

It was an exchange of views, I've got to be honest I can't teach anyone anything, I sometimes remind them of something they've forgotten during the difficulties of getting the job putting it in right and getting paid. (If it seemed like a class, sorry but do I get an apple?)

 

[Richardthe3rd]

One thing is clear though if you don't have the technology you will never benefit from it.

Dave I wasn't asleep on your class it was music to my ears...

It was an exchange of views, I've got to be honest I can't teach anyone anything, I sometimes remind them of something they've forgotten during the difficulties of getting the job putting it in right and getting paid. (If it seemed like a class, sorry but do I get an apple?)

Forgive me Dave, but what company do you work for??[/pquote]

Vokera.

I suppose I'd better add the views expressed are my own.

Ah, so these are not the views of Steven Wilson or John McKenzie then??
What the official company line then Dave??

I don't know the views of John though of course I believe if he had any sense he'd agree with me

Stevie Wilson isn't with us anymore, I can't remember who he's gone to though I saw him at PHEX last week.

If you want to know someone's views, ask 'em.

The official company line is they let their trainers tell the truth as they see it and that's what I do. Actually I wrote that a bit tongue in cheek but on reflection that is quite accurate, or at least nobody has ever said otherwise. I'm very fortunate in that.

I see now, didn't notice before, you're the Dick Puller that people mention in the CC.

Really??!! Gosh I'm sure it's all positive though....

It's refreshing Dave, to see someone airing their own views & it's a credit to Vokera. A popular manufacturer here in the Glasgow area & is due in no small part to their staff in Maryhill.

It would be interested to read your views on Lee's thread concerning boiler manufacturers.

 

[Dan Robinson]

It was 300 half an hour ago. Make your mind up.


BTW. It was 3 927s today. Finishing off the upgrade of my Nan's new (well, old) house.

Only 2 are functional though as they haven't built the annex yet, so that zone is all ready to rock and roll when the builders have fished. They can just plug and play with the pipes, then move the slider to auto.

Doing a hybrid compensated system next week though matey. Dual flow temperatures, Honeywell Evo for heating and hot water. Intergas system boiler.

Tried to sell a completely compensated Vaillant system, but the customer (high court judge) wasn't having any of their misuse of personal data shenanigans.

You can lead a horse to water, but sometimes they just won't drink pig swill.