Weather compensation & Wireless TRV control

[Dan Robinson]

Love your selective use of thermal mass.

A wc system like Vokera, Intergas, Coopra, vary their flow temps as they go, not the way I understand Viessmann boilers do by averaging a day?

So the thermal mass thing means the system will have plenty of time to react.

Alec..... I have been using this system in my own house. It works. Why can't you just accept that fact?

Yes the kit is expensive. But it is not just about energy efficiency.

And if you believe British Gas, then there really is no hope .

You have also harped on in the past about thermally isolating rooms? Just shut doors. It It is not hard. Any heat cap will then have the benefit of assisting the thermal mass of the building by not bringing on a zone because the wind has got up a tad.

Oh, and when I do fit these systems I tend to advise bathrooms and halls are left unzipped in order to give the boiler a better system flow and also the (usually) core of the house also has a reasonably stay heat state to help with the overall all thermal inertia of the building.

 

[ALEC1]

of course they work... manufacturers wouldn't sell them if they didn't, its just that there are better ways of controlling small heating systems as we have in our houses in the UK.

weather comp plus OT controllers are low cost, fit for purpose and integrate the system elegantly with the boiler.

On off controls are not really a fit for purpose solution for controlling boilers designed to condense, and run at as low a temperature as possible.

Honeywell exploit the UK market mercilessly and cynically..

If course if the OT bridge was released in the UK my position would be different..

 

[DukeGB]

What do you mean by OT bridge? A bridge between Evohome & boiler allowing modulation?

 

[Dan Robinson]

It is an alternative to the bdr receiver that enables opentherm with some Honeywell devices.

Not available or supported in the UK. I have one but not convinced it enables room sensing based compensation with evo, although it could be my boiler.

If you were closer to me I might have offered you a loan.

 

[ALEC1]

Yes duke an OT bridge would effectively tell the boiler at what temperature to fire relevant to demand.

 

[DukeGB]

At the moment it obv. modulates on return temp which is very similar!

 

[ALEC1]

but the flow temp is fixed..with out an outdoor sensor or OT room controller


its the temperature of radiators that determines their heat output

 

[DukeGB]

You're right, temp fixed flow reduces... Not the same thing.

 

[Dan Robinson]

No Duke.... temp fixed by controls, burner modulates according to its own regulation.

OT and WC will adjust the setpoint depending on the environment.

Where Alec and I differ is on the need (or not of zoning) and Alec doesn't like on/off controls or hybrid systems.

 

[DukeGB]

It's too late to think straight!

 

[ALEC1]

well all boilers have to accept modulating controls which vary flow temp and MUST save energy, but Honeywell, who make a fantastic range of them for sale in other parts of Europe won't sell them here..

Thats because they say there is no market for them, but seeing as their name regularly appears on research documents, they are clearly in a position to influence regulations.

They choose not to, fleecing the public by selling yesteryear's technology instead.

 

[Dan Robinson]

You forget Alec that you, I and the other professionals here like to push things along more than most out there.

Like the person that did the original install of the system I was working on today.

All piped up nicely... S plan wired in correctly.


then obviously flummoxed himself with the frost protection..... Pipe stat on the flow. Frost stat wired up the wrong way round and the business end of Terminal one was parked in the wiring centre with nothing to do.

T6360's seem to be confusing for a lot of chaps too.




Oh god - I sound like Tony.


Not sure that your venom towards Honeywell is entirely justified... if there was a business case for their fancy controls then they would sell them. Remember they don't make boilers, so Vaillant, Veissmann and Vokera (for example) can push their products and controls as part of the overall package.

If it going to cost them a fortune in technical support for daft questions with installers getting their knickers in a twist fitting something non propriety then why bother.


Perhaps better training for UK installers is needed. Or closer regulation to prevent too much DIY work?



I don't know mate... it's all bollocks really. .

 

[DukeGB]

So does numerous other major companies - Intel.. Funny how Moore's law still applies..

 

[Dan Robinson]

Indeed - I remember changing the clock crystal in my dad's 486 DX33 .


Car manufacturer's do it too. You could by a bottom of the range Vauxhall and all the wiring was there for the expensive features.

All you had to do was buy the bits that go at each end and hey presto.... luxury features for a fraction of the cost.

My new Transit Van (if the blugger ever arrives) is the middle engine output. The only difference between that and the next one up is £1500 (or so) and a different version of the ECU software.


Cheaky fookers.

 

[ALEC1]

well its the way I express my dislike of corporate Britain....and yes my experience of the public is that they like higher standards! and a second tier of installers would be welcome...