weber.set SPF
- Thread starter paulpa
- Start date
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Well i,ve posted before but just looking into what adhesive and primer is best suited and good value.
The floor is Anhydrite screed,. laying 30 x 60 porcelain tiles.
Weber are doing a good deal per pallet compared to the Bal ptb flex.
Another question would be should i use a solid bed when fixing?
The floor is Anhydrite screed,. laying 30 x 60 porcelain tiles.
Weber are doing a good deal per pallet compared to the Bal ptb flex.
Another question would be should i use a solid bed when fixing?
You will need an acrylic primer over Anhydrite which is Gypsum based screed. It’s always best to use products from the same manufacturer (I use BAL) to avoid any risk of problems with incompatibility. BAL APD is a quality acrylic primer so I don’t see a problem using it with Webber but why have you chosen a Flexy adhesive? a straight Rapidset will do you on a solid floor & is cheaper!
For that size tile, best use a large format trowel which has slightly deeper notches than a solid, thick bed trowel - 20mm round notches, 13mm deep, at 28mm centres. What type of porcs do you have, polished or glazed? Some need sealing BEFORE laying but some come pre-sealed; check with your supplier.
For that size tile, best use a large format trowel which has slightly deeper notches than a solid, thick bed trowel - 20mm round notches, 13mm deep, at 28mm centres. What type of porcs do you have, polished or glazed? Some need sealing BEFORE laying but some come pre-sealed; check with your supplier.
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I want flex as i have under floor heating.
The tiles are matt finish but must be sealed already as i have tried ketchup, red wine, dirt etc and it all sits on top and wipes straight off.
So 13mm depth on adhesive?
Is that a standard trowel size if i look top buy one?
Like these?
http://www.screwfix.com/p/ragni-not...=1132939#product_additional_details_container
http://www.toollineuk.com/product.php/site/froogle/sn/VIT102958
Weber looks too cheap compared to others. Or are others too dear compared to Weber
The tiles are matt finish but must be sealed already as i have tried ketchup, red wine, dirt etc and it all sits on top and wipes straight off.
So 13mm depth on adhesive?
Is that a standard trowel size if i look top buy one?
Like these?
http://www.screwfix.com/p/ragni-not...=1132939#product_additional_details_container
http://www.toollineuk.com/product.php/site/froogle/sn/VIT102958
Weber looks too cheap compared to others. Or are others too dear compared to Weber
OK but what sort of UFH, water or electric mat? If cable, have you laid an SLC over to form the tile base? I may have missed all this from any previous thread, not sure but it’s always best to stick with your original thread with continuing questions for continuity as folk won’t necessarily know about previous threads unless they check your post profile which takes up a lot of time.
You’ve obviously done your homework!
No, no, no it doesn’t work like that; it’s essential that floor tiles are fully supported (ideally 100%) or they could crack under load. A thick, solid bed trowel (20mm round notches, 10mm deep, at 28mm centres) will give an average adhesive depth of 3-4mm when bedded on a perfectly flat floor but you have to allow a margin to ensure adequate adhesive depth as very few floors are perfectly flat. This may be marginal with larger format tiles (over around 300mm) on anything other than a perfectly flat/even floor so the notch depth is increased by 3mm to make allowance & ensure you get close to the ideal 100% coverage.
Is that a standard trowel size if i look top buy one?
Like these?
http://www.screwfix.com/p/ragni-not...=1132939#product_additional_details_container
http://www.toollineuk.com/product.php/site/froogle/sn/VIT102958[/QUOTE]
The links don’t specify how deep the notch is but my guess is they are a standard thick, solid bed trowels with notches @ 10mm deep. That may well be enough on a nice flat floor & I often use my standard thick bed trowel on all but the very largest (paving slab) tiles but given what I’ve said above & without seeing your floor, I would recommend going to a large format trowel.
As stated, I generally use only BAL but it’s not cheap; I have limited experience with Webber but other pro tilers speak of it highly.Weber looks too cheap compared to others. Or are others too dear compared to Weber
HI, it is wet under floor heating. The Screed finish is pretty flat.
Can you explain the trowel use, i.e when applying should you trowel at say 45% rather than vertical if that makes sense?
I know Bal is probably the best name but are we paying for that?
Can you explain the trowel use, i.e when applying should you trowel at say 45% rather than vertical if that makes sense?
I know Bal is probably the best name but are we paying for that?
Ok that now makes sense.
The trowel is initially used fairly flat to lay down a bed of adhesive to a consistent thickness over what ever area your capable of working on & but usually no more than one sq/m at a time, especially with Rapidset which must be used in around 40 minutes. Being as plasterer also, my preference is to use a hawk rather than direct from the mixing bucket & lay it on much like plaster. Then hold the towel at a 45 degree angle & draw it across the adhesive bed to form straight ribs at right angles to the tile; remove the excess as you go but don’t put it back into the bucket, reuse it straight away. Using the correct size trowel will give the right depth ribs of adhesive to give 100% coverage under the tile but with experience, you can of course vary the angle of the trowel to give a smaller or greater depth to the adhesive bed depending on tile size & how flat the floor is; the important thing is to get that 100% coverage underneath the tiles or they can crack under impact or load.
Your paying for quality, consistency, reliability & excellent technical backup & for me the range of their products I use is 100% predictable which is why I rarely use anything else but there are other brands equally as good. At the end of the day the additional cost of decent adhesive & grout is small compared the cost of some tiles & a catastrophic tile failure.
Yes, i,m not really one to cut corners as i know quality is always a better option.
I just wonder with Bal though, especially the cost compared with Weber ( 2.5 times more expensive at least) That is quite a difference if you require a pallet of the adhesive.
i guess it is a decision i need to make.
One factor swaying me to Weber is the fact the adhesive i am looking at is not fast set. I prefer a little longer pot life, it prevents me getting in a tiss
My other dilemma is:
I am tiling the whole ground floor. I want to lay the tiles in a brick fashion.
Now do i run the tiles all in the same direction or do i change direction in rooms divided by a door.
Ideally you would want the brick effect as you enter a room but this would mean changing the direction in certain rooms.
I just wonder with Bal though, especially the cost compared with Weber ( 2.5 times more expensive at least) That is quite a difference if you require a pallet of the adhesive.
i guess it is a decision i need to make.
One factor swaying me to Weber is the fact the adhesive i am looking at is not fast set. I prefer a little longer pot life, it prevents me getting in a tiss
My other dilemma is:
I am tiling the whole ground floor. I want to lay the tiles in a brick fashion.
Now do i run the tiles all in the same direction or do i change direction in rooms divided by a door.
Ideally you would want the brick effect as you enter a room but this would mean changing the direction in certain rooms.
A few more observations from the additional info you’ve given;
A possible problem with brick weave on large format tiles can be the manufacturing tolerance; you need to check the bowing tolerance along the length of the tiles which can be sufficient to cause noticeable lippage when laid brickweave but still be within specification limits. Obviously if the tiles are laid in conventional fashion it won’t be a problem as all the tiles in the batch should be the same. Running the tiles in different directions on adjacent rooms is going to look odd IMO.
I didn’t realise you were tiling such a large area & you will probably need expansion joints, particularly with UFH. You should provide expansion gaps around the room perimeter & if any linear run of tiles exceeds around 6m you may need an additional expansion joint; “L” shaped rooms can also be a problem &, again, an expansion joint may be needed & break the tiles with an expansion joints at door thresholds rather than tile through.
The UFH should already have been commissioned & been in operation to allow the screed to settle down. It should be turned off & allowed to cool for at least 48 hours before tiling & allow at least 48 hours before you turn it back on at the lowest setting for 24 hours, then slowly increase up to operating temperature over several days.
Incidentally BAL SPF has a pot life of 5 hours.
A possible problem with brick weave on large format tiles can be the manufacturing tolerance; you need to check the bowing tolerance along the length of the tiles which can be sufficient to cause noticeable lippage when laid brickweave but still be within specification limits. Obviously if the tiles are laid in conventional fashion it won’t be a problem as all the tiles in the batch should be the same. Running the tiles in different directions on adjacent rooms is going to look odd IMO.
I didn’t realise you were tiling such a large area & you will probably need expansion joints, particularly with UFH. You should provide expansion gaps around the room perimeter & if any linear run of tiles exceeds around 6m you may need an additional expansion joint; “L” shaped rooms can also be a problem &, again, an expansion joint may be needed & break the tiles with an expansion joints at door thresholds rather than tile through.
The UFH should already have been commissioned & been in operation to allow the screed to settle down. It should be turned off & allowed to cool for at least 48 hours before tiling & allow at least 48 hours before you turn it back on at the lowest setting for 24 hours, then slowly increase up to operating temperature over several days.
Incidentally BAL SPF has a pot life of 5 hours.
Hi, yes i was just looking at the single part flex.
Probably the way to go.
I will lay tiles all in one direction Dictated by the hall way.
All rooms are square/rectangles no L shapes.
I was thinking of expansion joints at doors.
Would a silicon joint be the best idea with tiles stopping both sides of doors and the silicon rather than grout applied, or can aluminium strips be used?
http://www.atlasceramics.co.uk/site.../dural-premium-movement-joint-stainless-steel
I can leave tiles away from walls as i will be skirting after i have tiled.
Although with Anhydrite screed, no expansion was required at the screed stage ( going through doors). Edges did have expansion foam.
Probably the way to go.
I will lay tiles all in one direction Dictated by the hall way.
All rooms are square/rectangles no L shapes.
I was thinking of expansion joints at doors.
Would a silicon joint be the best idea with tiles stopping both sides of doors and the silicon rather than grout applied, or can aluminium strips be used?
http://www.atlasceramics.co.uk/site.../dural-premium-movement-joint-stainless-steel
I can leave tiles away from walls as i will be skirting after i have tiled.
Although with Anhydrite screed, no expansion was required at the screed stage ( going through doors). Edges did have expansion foam.
You can use silicone or a threshold cover strip but a proprietary expansion joint will look much better; http://www.wallsandfloors.co.uk/range/Aluminium-Heavy-Duty-Movement-Joints/
There are others available.
That’s fine but don’t grout the gap between the tile & the wall.
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