Were we ripped off?

[Curiosity101]

We recently had our 'whole house rewired' (the electricians words).

The house has 2 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, 1 living room and 1 kitchen.

We paid £2000 for a 'full rewire' as it was described.
- The electrician separated the kitchen onto it's own ring main.
- Added around 12 Sockets
- Installed a new consumer unit
- Installed an exterior security light
- A couple of fused outlets for appliances in the kitchen.
- He also put in a new cable for a larger electric shower and a new pull cord to go with it.

We had quite a big issue during the installation;
The earth we had was actually a domestic clip that had been illegally installed at some point prior to us buying the house (rather than a proper PME or equivalent). He didn't notice this at all (even though he came to quote for the job and spent around 2 hours doing various tests etc), he also didn't notice it during the job (despite the consumer unit and everything being directly above the main electrical inlet). It was only when he did earth tests on the wiring once he'd finished that he realized. This obviously set things back as we had to get that booked before we could get the electrics signed off.

Since then (this was about 6-8weeks ago) we have had a few issues.
- We found a random live cable under the floorboards that was just left out.
- We have found out that the consumer unit buzzes whenever the electric shower is used (don't know if this is normal?)
- We've found quite a few light sockets weren't very securely wired, ie. they had come un attached and so we had to re-wire them to get them working.
- And the double switch in the kitchen was originally wired incorrectly (only one light worked out of two) but my dad fixed that.
- Then, (as if this isn't enough) we had some real trouble trying to put up the bedroom lights. My dad is pretty competent when it comes to electrics, more than competent enough to wire up a few light fixtures. However when he took down the old fixtures he found the electrician had run all of the lighting off of 1 light (this light had alot of old cabling in it I think we counted roughly 15 cables in total).

We happen to have an electrician living next door who we didn't know well at the time (we'd just bought the house). We've done a couple of favours for him since we've moved in so he told us to ask him if we needed anything. We asked him to come and fit the light fitting for us (cause we couldn't get it working). And pretty much he was disgusted at the amount of old cabling in the house, especially given that we'd paid £2000 for a full rewire.

He has strongly advised us every time we've seen him since (so daily) to get in touch with the NIC because he reckons it's totally ridiculous what we were charged for what we have been given.

Well obviously we aren't electricians, and with the exception of my dad (who had his doubts about the electrician we hired the whole way through the job), we just took the guys word for it and assumed we were fine. Afterall we checked and double checked the 'going rate' for a full rewire and £2000 seemed about right.

Does anyone have an opinion on this? We would really like some additional advice before proceeding with this, we appreciate how important your 'name' is in any trade and we don't want to rush into potentially tarnishing his reputation just on our neighbours word.
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[riveralt]

He has strongly advised us every time we've seen him since (so daily) to get in touch with the NIC because he reckons it's totally ridiculous what we were charged for what we have been given.

This is good advice.
However, are you complaining about the quality of the work or the price?
NICEIC will focus on the quality and legality of the work only since the price is a contract between you and the installer.

 

[HERTS P&D]

Did you get 3 quotes before the work was done?

And was it the cheapest price?

Andy

 

[JohnW2]

He has strongly advised us every time we've seen him since (so daily) to get in touch with the NIC because he reckons it's totally ridiculous what we were charged for what we have been given.

This is good advice.
However, are you complaining about the quality of the work or the price?
NICEIC will focus on the quality and legality of the work only since the price is a contract between you and the installer.

In fact, had the work described ('full rewire', plus the specifics mentioned by OP) been done completely and properly, I suspect that the price would not have been at all unreasonable. However, from what has been described, it sounds as if the quality (and probably 'completeness') of the work was diabolical - and, as such, might not deserve any payment at all unless/until it is brought up to an acceptable standard. As you say, the primary 'reporting' should be in relation to quality/safety/legality of work.

My concern is whether NICEIC is necessarily the right organisation to 'report' to - we have not been explicitly told about the so-called electrician's alleged allegancies/memberships.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Curiosity101]

This is good advice.
However, are you complaining about the quality of the work or the price?
NICEIC will focus on the quality and legality of the work only since the price is a contract between you and the installer.

I think it's a bit of both.

Partly I feel like perhaps we were deliberately miss sold something. Ie. he sold us a full rewire and charged us accordingly, but hasn't actually carried out a full rewire.

So that was one big point our neighbour made.

The completely other point is all of the parts of the job where it just wasn't up to scratch. And there are alot of things about the job that our neighbour picked up on.
Eg.
The amount of 'legacy' cabling as our neighbour called it. Pretty much only the additional sockets, shower etc have new cabling, everything that currently existed is still there it's just been split off onto different circuits where he has separated the kitchen off for example.

Only the sockets that were installed had the faceplates changed, all other existing sockets were left(which were mainly very old and most had some damage).

A socket was installed at the same height as the kitchen worktop due to a short length of cabling to the socket outside which spurred off of it. Rather than replace the cable that joined the two sockets he just lowered the interior one so it was unusable.

The amount of loose wiring in the light switches was also pretty bad.

Just leaving a loose live cable... again quite bad


He installed the new shower on/off pull cord switch without mentioning it and then tried to charge us after the job was done.

He moved the outside socket (cause of the short cable problem) and it was put back onto the wall the wrong way up. He later came back to fix that at the same time as 'fixing the kitchen light switch that was wired incorrectly' and also to do the safety tests for the certificate. But he did ask that we covered his petrol costs (£20)
Bare in mind he had to come back to do the safety tests anyway because of the PME that I personally feel he should have noticed either before or during the job to avoid him having to make a second trip specifically to do the tests.

 

[Curiosity101]

Did you get 3 quotes before the work was done?

And was it the cheapest price?

Andy

Yep, 3 quotes and this one was marginally higher than the cheapest one we were given.

 

[Curiosity101]

My concern is whether NICEIC is necessarily the right organisation to 'report' to - we have not been explicitly told about the so-called electrician's alleged allegancies/memberships.

Is there anything particular you'd like me to look for/find out?

Obviously I wont mention anything that can be directly tied to this person but I'm sure I can give you more details.

 

[JohnW2]

My concern is whether NICEIC is necessarily the right organisation to 'report' to - we have not been explicitly told about the so-called electrician's alleged allegancies/memberships.

Is there anything particular you'd like me to look for/find out? Obviously I wont mention anything that can be directly tied to this person but I'm sure I can give you more details.

Well, the most important question is whether the electrician claimed to be a member of a NICIEC 'scheme'. What paperwork did he provide?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Curiosity101]

Well, the most important question is whether the electrician claimed to be a member of a NICIEC 'scheme'. What paperwork did he provide?

Kind Regards, John

I've just done a quick search on the NICEIC register and he is listed as a domestic installer.

We have also received the domestic electrical installation certificate. He sent us an e-copy and we've since received the one from the council.

Edit: Just to add we may not know alot about electrics but we knew enough to know they had to be registered and we hired him from mybuilder.com and he had lots of (geuine looking) positive feedback and was verified etc. So although I never checked it myself until now we were pretty sure he was genuine.

 

[JohnW2]

I've just done a quick search on the NICEIC register and he is listed as a domestic installer.

In that case, NICEIC are the right people to 'report him' to. If you've got any photos of some of the things you described, they would probably be a valuable addition to your 'report'.

Edit: Just to add we may not know alot about electrics but we knew enough to know they had to be registered ...

For the record, there is no requirement for electricians to be registered with anyone. If they are not registered with a self-certification scheme (such as the NICEIC one) then they (or any other 'man in the street, come to that) can do any electrical work they want, provided they (for a significant price!) 'notify' their local authority about the work and submit to oversight/'certification' by that local authority.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Curiosity101]

For the record, there is no requirement for electricians to be registered with anyone. If they are not registered with a self-certification scheme (such as the NICEIC one) then they (or any other 'man in the street, come to that) can do any electrical work they want, provided they (for a significant price!) 'notify' their local authority about the work and submit to oversight/'certification' by that local authority.

Kind Regards, John

Well there we go, I know even less about electrics than I thought and I didn't think I knew much at all.

Thanks for the advice, I'll look into the process for sending a report. Sadly we don't have pictures of anything which I'm kicking myself for now. At the time it was a case of 'we're moving in we need to fix this' so we just went around and fixed everything ourselves (down to removing the entire live cable that had been left). Plus at the time I just kinda took it as 'oh well these things happen, it's when the list just keeps getting longer and longer that you think 'hmm, perhaps this isn't actually acceptable'. Then when our neighbour came round... he genuinely got quite angry at what this guy had done.

 

[Curiosity101]

I've just had a quick read and the documentation implies that only matters of 'safety' will be considered and that they need to be able to verify our complaint by an onsite visit.

The only thing we can 'prove' is the amount of legacy cabling which in itself isn't actually dangerous.

Should I be getting in touch with trading standards instead or should I try sending in a complaint to the NIC first?

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks for the advice, I'll look into the process for sending a report.

This might be a good start ... click here

Sadly we don't have pictures of anything which I'm kicking myself for now. At the time it was a case of 'we're moving in we need to fix this' so we just went around and fixed everything ourselves (down to removing the entire live cable that had been left). Plus at the time I just kinda took it as 'oh well these things happen, it's when the list just keeps getting longer and longer that you think 'hmm, perhaps this isn't actually acceptable'. Then when our neighbour came round... he genuinely got quite angry at what this guy had done.

It's a great pity that you don't have any photos and have rectified many/most of the problems - that's obviously going to make it more difficult to substantiate the case against the electrician, who may take the approach of 'denying it all'. At least you have some 'witnesses', and it sounds as if there are at least some residual 'bits of evidence'. I can certainly understand your neighbour having become angry. Good luck!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Yes it does seem as if you have been ripped off but as far as any redress then that's another thing.

You have said how you have corrected items and really if you want redress then you should not touch a thing. However it is hard to live with known faults.

I do remember a job my son did a good few years ago where he had found there was no earth. There is no option one has to fit an earth rod and wire as TT. If the DNO then provided an earth to allow a TN-C-S supply, then returning to alter would be a new job. As the electrician he had to agree with owners.
A) Wire as a TT system.
B) Leave power off until DNO provided and earth.
C) Wire as a TT then return and alter latter.
The owner selected B) and my son provided earth cable ready and used a cable tie to stop the power being switched on without a tool yet still allowing the DNO to snip cable tie so they could test.

He returned to find owner had snipped cable tie and was using system without it being tested and he just walked away from the job. It was clear the owner had fiddled with the system.

It was registered through council who contacted my son. Once it was explained how the owner had fiddled with system they just told him he was correct not to issue a certificate and he had no more to do with that job.

I am not saying he was right in what he did but clearly the LABC endorsed his actions.

The fact you have corrected items yourself means he can no longer be held responsible for the system safety. Not supplying what he agreed clearly was wrong but by doing DIY work to correct it would be extremely hard to fight in a court or with his scheme provider.

So although he would seem to have broken some rules now because you corrected them you are really relying on his sense of fair play to correct things.

If the old cable was in the old colours you may stand a chance.

Step one is photos. But I would tread careful now you have corrected items yourself.

Lets see what the others think? But I think now you have done some DIY you are on a sticky wicket. If however you could get neighbour to issue a minor works for emergency remedial work that would be different. It's the DIY which is the problem.

 

[Curiosity101]

The old wiring is in the old colours yes, at least that is what our neighbour said.

I will talk to our neighbour about it, cause really all we can show is all of the old cabling. And even then although we hired him for a full rewire, isn't it still very much our word against his?