Were we ripped off?

[HERTS P&D]

And even then although we hired him for a full rewire, isn't it still very much our word against his?

Didn't he give you a written quote?

Andy

 

[JohnW2]

I've just had a quick read and the documentation implies that only matters of 'safety' will be considered and that they need to be able to verify our complaint by an onsite visit.

I suppose it all depends on how widely they interpret 'matters of safety'. Given that the Wiring Regulations exist to promote safety, it could be that they will regard any substantial non-compliance with regulations as 'safety' issues. It could be that they just won't become involved in arguments anount money, 'tidiness', speed of work etc.

The only thing we can 'prove' is the amount of legacy cabling which in itself isn't actually dangerous. Should I be getting in touch with trading standards instead or should I try sending in a complaint to the NIC first?

I think my personal inclination would be to approach NICEIC first. Trading Standards would presumaly need expert opinions about quality of work. If it is documented that they charged you for a 'full re-wire' but didn't do that, I suppose that might, in itself, be an issue for TS. You could talk to NICEIC about whether and when you should involve TS.

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

We have also received the domestic electrical installation certificate. He sent us an e-copy and we've since received the one from the council

Contact the council and tell them that both you and an elctrician have serious concerns about the quality of the work that has been self certified. They should then arrange to have the installation checked by an electrician they have confidence in.

You may incur some costs in this but if the council find the installation is not up to standard they may support you in claim for a refund from the "electrician".

My concern would be there that since there are obvious faults it is likely there will also be hidden faults which could create a hazard.

 

[Curiosity101]

Didn't he give you a written quote?

Andy

Yes but it doesn't specify it is a rewire.

It just specifies the details, ie. how many additional sockets are being installed etc. So the specifics of the rewire. Every time we spoke to him he said 'full rewire'.

I feel so naive now, I thought we'd been really careful and checked things through. We made sure we'd got it in writing exactly what he was doing so we could go through and check everything was done as we'd expected. And on the face of it, it all seemed fine at the time.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes but it doesn't specify it is a rewire. ... It just specifies the details, ie. how many additional sockets are being installed etc. So the specifics of the rewire. Every time we spoke to him he said 'full rewire'. ... I feel so naive now, I thought we'd been really careful and checked things through. We made sure we'd got it in writing exactly what he was doing so we could go through and check everything was done as we'd expected. And on the face of it, it all seemed fine at the time.

Hindsight often makes things feel very different - most of us have been there!

If the 'full re-wire' bit was only ever verbal, it sounds as if he may have done everything that he documented would be done, or was done. Your argument may therefore have to major on the fact that he did those things badly, rather than that he didn't do everything he was 'meant'/'expected' to do. I fear that you may have to prepare yourself for dealking with a rather 'slimey'/wriggly character!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Curiosity101]

Ok, so I'll speak to my neighbour about potentially issuing a minor works for emergency remedial work and then take it from there.

Thanks for all of the advice everyone.

 

[Spark123]

You have shot yourself in the foot by allowing someone else to carry out work on your installation, you should have called the installer back to carry out any remedial work. The NICEIC will probably not now consider a complaint about his work.

 

[JohnW2]

You have shot yourself in the foot by allowing someone else to carry out work on your installation, you should have called the installer back to carry out any remedial work. The NICEIC will probably not now consider a complaint about his work.

It seems that you are probably right. The NICEIC Complaints Procedure description inicates that one of the situations in which they will not consdier a complaint is:

"Complaints where action has been taken to correct, alter or remove the features of the work complained about. In such cases NICEIC would be unable to firmly establish, by means of an onsite inspection, whether or not the work originally complied with BS 7671 and, where applicable, the Building Regulations."

A pity, given what we're being told.

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

"Full rewire" and "separated kitchen into own ring" do not go together.

Full rewire spoken but not on paper is still a verbal contract.

 

[JohnW2]

"Full rewire" and "separated kitchen into own ring" do not go together. Full rewire spoken but not on paper is still a verbal contract.

Indeed it is - but one may then be into the messy territory of 'his (or their) word against mine (our ours)'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

The live cable under the floor is disturbing, though you don't state if this is an old one or not.

Some rewires do, unfortunately, sometimes seem to keep old cables IF they are reasonably new and it's not practical to replace them, usually if they are inaccessible and damage would be caused. But if it's clearly getting on, it would be totally unreasonable not to replace it.

It's not unheard of for a light fitting to have 15 wires ie 5 cables at it, though difficult for the inexperienced to cram this in a light fitting.

Buzzing at the consumer unit is worrying, it could be a bad connection.

You said about loose wiring at some lights, is this the manufacturers wiring of the fitting, or the electrician's?

Either way, the electrician should check all connections everywhere are secure.

The switches not functioning properly should have been noted by your electrician. This seems lazy.

Any problems should have been reported immediately to your electrician.

It does sound like you may have had a poor job done, but I don't think we know enough yet to confirm that.

 

[Curiosity101]

The live cable under the floor is disturbing, though you don't state if this is an old one or not.

I couldn't state this as fact but I think it was new, or rather existing but he did wire the downstairs lighting and upstairs lighting into the consumer unit seperately so I'd imagine he had been there as it was part of the downstairs lighting and all the lights spur off of that light downstairs. (if that makes sense)

Some rewires do, unfortunately, sometimes seem to keep old cables IF they are reasonably new and it's not practical to replace them, usually if they are inaccessible and damage would be caused. But if it's clearly getting on, it would be totally unreasonable not to replace it.

It was the old coloured cabling if that means anything. And the electrician from next door made it clear he wasn't happy that it'd been used/kept.

It's not unheard of for a light fitting to have 15 wires ie 5 cables at it, though difficult for the inexperienced to cram this in a light fitting.

The number of wires themselves didn't bother us at all. When we asked the neighbour to wire our lights for us we didn't think anything of it other than that we obviously didn't understand exactly which were the correct cables for that particular light.

It was only after he asked us about the job that was done, how much we paid etc etc that he said that it was ridiculous that it'd not only been left as the old cabling but that he'd not bothered to re-wire it in a more sensible manner.

Buzzing at the consumer unit is worrying, it could be a bad connection.

I'm glad you mentioned that, I'll definitely get in touch with him about this and mention the buzzing.

You said about loose wiring at some lights, is this the manufacturers wiring of the fitting, or the electrician's?

It was the switches themselves, or rather the ones he had moved/sunk into walls. They just weren't working at all and when we took them off the wires weren't properly tightened up/attached.

Any problems should have been reported immediately to your electrician.

^^ This. I am normally the first to mention something if I think someone is messing me about. But I just didn't know enough to deem it 'unnacceptable'. And as it was 'oh this light switch isn't wired correctly' and then a couple of days late 'oh this light switch wont turn on it needs the wires securing properly' etc it just didn't ever feel like enough to call him out for. Only now after finding so many problems do I feel like we should have definitely called him back/not paid as quickly as we did.

Even down to him trying to get us to pay for his petrol (for a trip he had to make anyway to fix his errors) and trying to get us to pay for the shower pull cord switch... I definitely feel like I should've been a bit more cautious/suspicious sooner.

 

[securespark]

What is the description of works on the cert?

 

[Curiosity101]

What is the description of works on the cert?

On the one he sent to us:
New consumer unit
Additional sockets
Seperate kitchen ring main

I'm not sure where the certificate is from the council but I can go and check that if you want?

 

[securespark]

He does not mention any lighting???

If I were doing a cert for a "full rewire", I'd say just that, for example:

"Full rewiring of property, to include 24 sockets, 15 lighting points, cooker point, shower point, immersion heater, outside lights front and rear, smoke alarms to first and ground floor hallways and including PEB's to gas and water pipes and 12 way consumer unit fitted with RCBO's...."

Whereas if it were a partial rewire:

"Partial rewiring of property, to include A B & C. X Y Z circuits were found to be wired in modern cable in good condition to current regulations, tested satisfactorily and consequently were reinstated."