OP, are you ok?? Did the fella break your fingers?? Keen to know what happened about this!
what are my rights after being a victim of Dot & Dab til
- Thread starter thisismyusername
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Let this be a lesson to all of us - it matters not how strong your legal case may be if the cowboy builder kills you and hides the body where the sun does not shine, which I presume is somewhere in Scotland.
Hi guys, i want to thank you for all of the advice you have given along the way and would like to apologise for the delay in updating this thread, my desktop stopped working and i have had other things going on.
Anyways, heres the update:
My parents were the ones responsible for arranging and appointing someone to carry out the works. They did not follow what most of you's would call the right procedure or logical steps in appointing the 'right' tradesmen. However, I am told that they called a few people and they were similarly priced in their estimates, for the work that was to be carried out. The ones that were selected assured my parents they are professionals, that their quality of work would astound them, they will have no reason to complain and the rest of it. My parents being quite simple people and seeing the best in everyone were taken in by it and gave the job to these guys, who might i add, were NOT the cheapest, but the ones that came across as having the knowledge and expertise of being able to do the job properly and competently.
I was the one responsible for getting/ordering/purchasing all the products and materials.
Anyhoo, after the first meeting (where he ran out the house, got in his car and zoomed off), my mother arranged for a second meeting (we instigated it because we wanted to sort things out either way and have the bathroom in a usuable state asap) and he came with a buddy of his (who apparently worked for a council). Anyway, i showed them both everything we had an issue with, he maintained that the work was good and that we wouldn’t face any problems in the future. He said he would relay them all but wanted us to provide him the materials for it, we said no. I explained all of the reasons why im not happy with the job and the guys responses kept changing from the fact that this is the way he always lays tiles, to the fact it was laid this way due to bad walls (that he plastered to correct-yet still the walls are the culprit when it suited his defence), to 'what did we expect for that amount of money'. At no point do we remember him saying that if we paid him more, he would do a better job, the price was negotiated and he was happy to do it for the agreed price.
Anyhow, i had a reasonable response to everything they had to say, backed up all my responses with British Standards, regulations etc and i told them that we no longer trust him or wish for him to continue working on our property. He then said he still wanted to be paid for it. Tensions grew, it became a long, drawn out 'meeting', going backwards and forth but when they knew that i was not having none of their feeble excuses, they then started appealing to my parents better side, with emotional pleas about how he has worked hard for many days on the bathroom, how he did my parents a favour in the first place by giving them a good price, how he had gone out and bought certain materials himself several times (which obviously we paid for and he ended up going several times to get because he told us the wrong amount to get in the first place or didnt tell us to get at all).
I offered him £200 take it or leave it and a few times in anger they tried to leave and i told them that this is the second time we have invited them to try and resolve the issue and we dont have time to waste, with an empty bathroom, so if they left the house without the issue resolved, then we will no longer be interested in talking of this matter again, unless its in a legal capacity. They carried on working on my parents ("the elders"). I told my parents that i honestly dont think they even deserve that but they got taken in by their pleas and false assurances and guarantees that nothing will happen to the tiles and if they ever did, he would come sort them out etc and my parents ended up paying him almost 60% of the agreed amount.
Since then, i took it upon myself to employ the services of credible people to finish off the work, got a professional electrician, plumber etc. The plumber even commented on how the tilers have done so many things wrong, that even made his job even more difficult when installing the plumbing, suite and accessories. We have ended up paying obviously allot more then what we had agreed with the previous problematic guy, but im very happy with the performance and results of the workmanship that the others have shown since. Very hard workers and perfectionists.
Ill upload some pics in a moment, but please bear in mind, that the pictures were taken from a mobile phone and does not show the full extent of the issues, that a better camera or a naked eye would.
Sorry for the long post
Anyways, heres the update:
My parents were the ones responsible for arranging and appointing someone to carry out the works. They did not follow what most of you's would call the right procedure or logical steps in appointing the 'right' tradesmen. However, I am told that they called a few people and they were similarly priced in their estimates, for the work that was to be carried out. The ones that were selected assured my parents they are professionals, that their quality of work would astound them, they will have no reason to complain and the rest of it. My parents being quite simple people and seeing the best in everyone were taken in by it and gave the job to these guys, who might i add, were NOT the cheapest, but the ones that came across as having the knowledge and expertise of being able to do the job properly and competently.
I was the one responsible for getting/ordering/purchasing all the products and materials.
Anyhoo, after the first meeting (where he ran out the house, got in his car and zoomed off), my mother arranged for a second meeting (we instigated it because we wanted to sort things out either way and have the bathroom in a usuable state asap) and he came with a buddy of his (who apparently worked for a council). Anyway, i showed them both everything we had an issue with, he maintained that the work was good and that we wouldn’t face any problems in the future. He said he would relay them all but wanted us to provide him the materials for it, we said no. I explained all of the reasons why im not happy with the job and the guys responses kept changing from the fact that this is the way he always lays tiles, to the fact it was laid this way due to bad walls (that he plastered to correct-yet still the walls are the culprit when it suited his defence), to 'what did we expect for that amount of money'. At no point do we remember him saying that if we paid him more, he would do a better job, the price was negotiated and he was happy to do it for the agreed price.
Anyhow, i had a reasonable response to everything they had to say, backed up all my responses with British Standards, regulations etc and i told them that we no longer trust him or wish for him to continue working on our property. He then said he still wanted to be paid for it. Tensions grew, it became a long, drawn out 'meeting', going backwards and forth but when they knew that i was not having none of their feeble excuses, they then started appealing to my parents better side, with emotional pleas about how he has worked hard for many days on the bathroom, how he did my parents a favour in the first place by giving them a good price, how he had gone out and bought certain materials himself several times (which obviously we paid for and he ended up going several times to get because he told us the wrong amount to get in the first place or didnt tell us to get at all).
I offered him £200 take it or leave it and a few times in anger they tried to leave and i told them that this is the second time we have invited them to try and resolve the issue and we dont have time to waste, with an empty bathroom, so if they left the house without the issue resolved, then we will no longer be interested in talking of this matter again, unless its in a legal capacity. They carried on working on my parents ("the elders"). I told my parents that i honestly dont think they even deserve that but they got taken in by their pleas and false assurances and guarantees that nothing will happen to the tiles and if they ever did, he would come sort them out etc and my parents ended up paying him almost 60% of the agreed amount.
Since then, i took it upon myself to employ the services of credible people to finish off the work, got a professional electrician, plumber etc. The plumber even commented on how the tilers have done so many things wrong, that even made his job even more difficult when installing the plumbing, suite and accessories. We have ended up paying obviously allot more then what we had agreed with the previous problematic guy, but im very happy with the performance and results of the workmanship that the others have shown since. Very hard workers and perfectionists.
Ill upload some pics in a moment, but please bear in mind, that the pictures were taken from a mobile phone and does not show the full extent of the issues, that a better camera or a naked eye would.
Sorry for the long post
PICTURES
They put the border on differently on different walls (upside down of one another)
Can you spot what theyve done here? Horizontal vs Vertical
Self explanotary
Some examples of uneven tiles (it isnt as obvious in the pictures)
Hasnt grouted properly in some places
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
In most places, the grouting or space between tiles is very uneven, even though we bought them spacers to use. These are quite prevalent in the following pictures, but most of the pictures show indication of such uneven spaces.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
This isnt the full extent, theres many more issues like these, but im sure you get the picture. If anyone is interested in how the bathroom looks as a whole now that it is nearly complete, let me know.
They put the border on differently on different walls (upside down of one another)
Can you spot what theyve done here? Horizontal vs Vertical
Self explanotary
Some examples of uneven tiles (it isnt as obvious in the pictures)
Hasnt grouted properly in some places
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
In most places, the grouting or space between tiles is very uneven, even though we bought them spacers to use. These are quite prevalent in the following pictures, but most of the pictures show indication of such uneven spaces.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
This isnt the full extent, theres many more issues like these, but im sure you get the picture. If anyone is interested in how the bathroom looks as a whole now that it is nearly complete, let me know.
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Thanks for the update, kind of releaved that you didn't get your arms broken. At a glance I suspect the original job looks passable, just on close inspection there are alot of niggles which aren't good at all and they all mount up.
Of course we would like to see the completed job, well I would anyway
Of course we would like to see the completed job, well I would anyway
Difficult to judge looking a bunch of photos but I would ay it’s a tiling job than needed some thought but not one that should have caused any problems for an experienced tiler. I don’t think the quality of work is at all “passable” , certainly not by my standards; it’s bloody awful & I would have offered a lot less than 60% of contract value!
I think you have misonterpreted me, what I meant was that say you just opened the door and had a quick glance you wouldn't notice most of the defects.
The job is not acceptable, saying that though I have seen worse, expecially when veiwing houses during the "boom".
The job is not acceptable, saying that though I have seen worse, expecially when veiwing houses during the "boom".
Having tiled one bathroom and one toilet floor only, I would say the quality of work is not acceptable even for a beginner DIY-er. Did they tiled with their eyes closed to put the border upside down and the liitle piece of tile with the strips vertically? Sorry for your bad experience, OP.
Sorry m8, no offense intended
I have been reading this old thread as part of my research for tiling my kitchen.
After reading all the words I though that it was going to be a pretty dreadful job and was even surprised on seeing the pictures at how much better it was than my expectations.
Whilst its not the standard to be expected of any professional and certainly not of a builder who regularly undertakes tiling, its pretty much what I would expect from a DIYer as his first or second job.
I see a lot of questionable tiling in rented out properties where the landlord has employed cheap bodgers and the tenants still live there!
After reading all the words I though that it was going to be a pretty dreadful job and was even surprised on seeing the pictures at how much better it was than my expectations.
Whilst its not the standard to be expected of any professional and certainly not of a builder who regularly undertakes tiling, its pretty much what I would expect from a DIYer as his first or second job.
I see a lot of questionable tiling in rented out properties where the landlord has employed cheap bodgers and the tenants still live there!
I looked at the pictures again (got a notification when you posted your comment), and can confirm that as a DIY-er I did much better job, nowhere near what you can see in this topic, and yes, it was my very first experience with tiling.
If the only thing I could achieve looked as on the pictures, I would pay somebody to do the job.
If the only thing I could achieve looked as on the pictures, I would pay somebody to do the job.
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