What are these cars?

M

mysteryman

A little quiz for you car buffs:

Back in 1975 I had two cars, with a combined age of 22 years. They both had technically interesting engines, renowned for their smoothness [and power in the bigger one]. Both cars were designed and made in Europe.

Between them, they had:

Eleven cylinders
Sixteen valves
One camshaft
One oil pump
Two distributors
Three contact breakers
Two inlet manifolds
Three carburettors
Three exhaust manifolds
Four drum brakes
Four disc brakes

Both engines were in the cars for which they were designed. The smaller engine was later replaced by a very different one, and the larger engine was also used for a different car.

What cars were they?
 
Sponsored Links
Joined
15 Nov 2005
Messages
77,987
Reaction score
4,936
Location
Goodwood
Country
Cook Islands
An odd number of cylinders. Was one a 5-cylinder Audi? the engine was also used in a Porsche. But mine had K-Jetronic fuel injection, no carbs.

Only one camshaft. Was one a 2-stroke, such as a Wartburg?
 
Joined
15 Nov 2005
Messages
77,987
Reaction score
4,936
Location
Goodwood
Country
Cook Islands
More exhaust manifoolds suggests a V-engine. Maybe a 6-cylinder if the other was a 5. Can't think of many V6s. But it could have been a V-8 if the other was a 3-cylinder. Was the Wartburg? Or the Trabant?
 
Sponsored Links
Joined
24 Oct 2006
Messages
607
Reaction score
83
Location
Cheshire
Country
United Kingdom
A rotary (****el) engine has open intake and exhaust ports with no valves - so no camshaft. And could be considered to have 3 "cylinders".
 
Joined
15 Nov 2005
Messages
77,987
Reaction score
4,936
Location
Goodwood
Country
Cook Islands
Aha!

I've checked, and the 2-stroke Trabant was a 3-cylinder.

So now we're looking for a V-8 with 2 carbs and *******. Probably designed by gluing two 4-cyls together, so not the Rover (Buick) engine. 16 valves is OK for a V8 (none on a 2-stroke)

What about a Triumph Stag?

(edit - only one oil pump rules out the rotary engine, pretty sure it's the 2-stroke running on Petroil)

edit again - two distributors and three contact breakers? :confused: Presumably two of them on the V8.

edit yet again

Only one camshaft? So not OHC. Could be done on a V8 but very old fashioned
 
Joined
24 Oct 2006
Messages
607
Reaction score
83
Location
Cheshire
Country
United Kingdom
Doesn't only one camshaft rule out a V8?

Didn't both Alfa and Merc play with some straight 8 engines for a time?
 
Joined
15 Nov 2005
Messages
77,987
Reaction score
4,936
Location
Goodwood
Country
Cook Islands
see my latest little edit...

Maybe the Daimler V8? Age is about right. A Drat or a hearse?

Ah, but he says European. He probably means not British. Something odd. Not a big Alfa as they were DOHC. Facel Vega? Going to be something quite rare over here.

Edit again:

A straight-eight would normally have the same number of inlet and exhaust manifolds. A v engine usually has one inlet and two exhaust.
 
M

mysteryman

West Europe. Does not exclude the UK. Facel Vegas had Yank [Chrysler] engines.

Going for lunch now.
 
Joined
15 Nov 2005
Messages
77,987
Reaction score
4,936
Location
Goodwood
Country
Cook Islands
well I looked up the Daimler V8 and it did have pushrods not OHC.

but did the Dart have 4 disk brakes?

edit
Yes!

And only one camshaft!

don't know about the contact breakers though. Where would you put two?
 
Joined
15 Nov 2005
Messages
77,987
Reaction score
4,936
Location
Goodwood
Country
Cook Islands
the V8 Daimler is (not very much) like a Triumph Speed Twin (bike) engine and its derivatives, especially the cylinder-head design. After being gobbled up by Jaguar, the Daimler engine (better than the Jag 6, but presumably more expensive to make) was stuffed into rebadged Jag saloons, and the Dart was quickly smothered.

the late Wartburg had a revised VW Golf engine (for a short time)

Prior to Soviet occupation the Wartburg factory had been part of BMW so there may be a motorcycle heritage, though I don't know of a 3-cyl BMW, or possibly aero-engines (see the BMW propellor badge). Or there may be a heritage from the early DKW 2-stroke micro-car which had some connection to the factory though the brand later turned into Audi.
 
Joined
15 Nov 2005
Messages
77,987
Reaction score
4,936
Location
Goodwood
Country
Cook Islands
so what were your two cars?

And where did the contact-breakers go?

edit
found it
the 3-cyl 2-stroke was an old DKW design. Apparently designed in 1940 but not then put into production.
 
M

mysteryman

Yes, the bigger engine was a 2548cc V8 in a Daimler SP250 aka a Dart, later used in the Jaguar Mark 2 body as a Daimler-Jag. This was considered by some to be the best Mk 2 Jag, as the engine was lighter than any of the dohc Jag sixes, and much more powerful than the 2.4. This made for better handling. When Jaguar bought out [bankrupt] Daimler, rumour has it that they put a Majestic Major 4.5 litre V8 in a Mk 10 Jag, and it was about 15mph faster than with the [race-bred] Jag engine! The splendid Daimler V8s were designed by an ex-Triumph motorbike engine man, Edward Turner. The Majestic Major car was faster than a standard MK 10 Jag as well.

The Dart had 4 disc brakes as well as the V8 engine and glass fibre bodywork. The distributor had two contact breakers on the eight lobe cam. One set did all the making and the other did all the breaking, this increased the dwell angle. At 6600 rpm, the coil was producing 440 sparks per second, this frequency is the Concert Pitch A note that orchestras are tuned to!

The other car was a Saab 96 three cylinder two stroke. Later versions had a German Ford V4 engine. The V4 fan belt pulley was on the front of the contra-rotating balance shaft, and the water pump, alternator and fan ran anticlockwise. They had a balance shaft because the engine was a 60 degree V4, a cut-down V6. These German engines were different from the UK ones as fitted in early petrol Transits and late Corsairs.

The V4 96s had front disc brakes, although I think the two strokes all had four drum brakes.

I think Saab may have used earlier 2 stroke technology in their engines, but I can't remember from where.

Both these engines were wonderfully smooth.
 
Sponsored Links
Top