What is required for building regs application?

[ChrisZx]

I want to move the CU and circuits in my old outhouse to my new garage, quite a simple task in the grand scheme of things and I'm confident I've got a reasonably good idea of what I'm doing. I'm certainly happy to do the work myself.

So I'm curious, what information is required to make a submission for building regs approval to the council? Will I need detailed designs and calculations, or will they just inspect and test once completed?

Thanks!

 

[ericmark]

When I wanted to do work myself they wanted to see my qualifications and it was a talk with the building inspector and we had to convince him we had the skill.

To have some one else do the inspection and testing will likely cost more than having some one do the whole job.

 

[ChrisZx]

Thanks, Hounslow council say it's £269 for an application for "Domestic Electrical works not
carried out under the Competent Persons Scheme", does that not include the testing? I'm assuming it would be more than that for a days work for an electrician in London, I would guess it's about a days work anyway

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks, Hounslow council say it's £269 for an application for "Domestic Electrical works not carried out under the Competent Persons Scheme", does that not include the testing?

It seems that it does. A 2015 document from the London Borough of Hounslow says that the charge for "Domestic Electrical works not carried out under the Competent Persons Scheme" is, as you say, £269, of which 40% (£90+VAT=£108) is a "Plan Charge" and 60% (£134.17+VAT=£161) is an "Inspection Charge". I would assume (although you ought to confirm with them!) that "inspection" includes testing.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I doubt it does. "Plan Charge" and "Inspection Charge" are standard terms describing the stages of checking plans and inspecting the work. I doubt that they have the skills to properly verify BS 7671 compliance.

But they might.

Thanks, Hounslow council say it's £269 for an application for "Domestic Electrical works not carried out under the Competent Persons Scheme", does that not include the testing?

The best way to find out is to ask them, not us.

I would guess it's about a days work anyway

How informed is that guess?

I want to move the CU and circuits in my old outhouse to my new garage

Well "moving the circuits" is a nonsense - what are you going to do - reuse old cables?

What is the CU made of?

quite a simple task

How do you know that?

 

[JohnW2]

I doubt it does. "Plan Charge" and "Inspection Charge" are standard terms describing the stages of checking plans and inspecting the work. I doubt that they have the skills to properly verify BS 7671 compliance. But they might.

As I said to him, the OP should ask them. However, in terms of electrical work, there is so little they could do (even if competent so to do) as regards verifying BS7671 compliance by visual inspection that I rather thought that it probably included testing.

If they are asking for £161 (incl VAT) to 'inspect', but not test, exactly what 'inspecting' do you think they would do?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ChrisZx]

I doubt it does. "Plan Charge" and "Inspection Charge" are standard terms describing the stages of checking plans and inspecting the work. I doubt that they have the skills to properly verify BS 7671 compliance.

But they might.

The best way to find out is to ask them, not us

I was assuming they used a third party contractor to do it for them. I will have to check, but if it doesn't include the testing charge what the hell is the £269 for?!?

How informed is that guess?

Pretty poorly, but I'd be impressed if someone could knock it out in 5 or 6 hours (ie less than a day). 6 internal sockets, 1 external socket, 2 external pir lights, 2 other external lights, roller garage door, 4 strip lights, two internal light switches, one external switch and the CU plus the connection to the house CU.

Well "moving the circuits" is a nonsense - what are you going to do - reuse old cables?

Hardly, I was merely stating that the existing circuitry in the outhouse would be removed, making the garage the only building the CU has to serve. It was a quick way of conveying that.

What is the CU made of?

Plastic I have little idea if it's reusable right now, it's only a couple of years old though. Figured it doesn't really matter at this stage, when it comes to it if I need a new one doesn't matter if I need to buy a new one or an electrician does. I'll do my best to check but if I get it wrong, that's what the inspection is for right?

How do you know that?

How do any of us know anything? The difficulty if a task is proportional to ones own experience and confidence. I'll manage.

 

[ericmark]

I know when I did it in Wales it was £100 plus vat for first £1000 worth of work, fixed by Welsh assembly then extra if you are not considered as competent to do your own inspecting and testing.

I was lucky the work was for mothers disability so FOC as to how they calculate £1000 worth of work I don't know? Where the electric is part of a larger project it may be worth while. Or a complete rewire. But for most jobs it's a non starter.

If I was going to inspect and test for a third party that I did not know, I would want to inspect 3 or 4 times at different stages of the work. If you consider at least £60 per visit then it gets rather expensive.

When I wanted to rewire mothers house it cost around £3000 with me making good plaster. With £500 to council and £1500 for parts that's just £1000 for 2 men for 5 days. On my own more like a month, just not worth doing it DIY. And that is when I can sign my own installation certificate.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If they are asking for £161 (incl VAT) to 'inspect', but not test, exactly what 'inspecting' do you think they would do?

I would not be in the least surprised were I to learn that it was inspecting the certificate issued by the qualified electrician.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I was assuming they used a third party contractor to do it for them. I will have to check, but if it doesn't include the testing charge what the hell is the £269 for?!?

To dissuade you from not using a registered electrician.

Plastic I have little idea if it's reusable right now

It's not.

it's only a couple of years old though.

Age is irrelevant - the regulations have changed.

Figured it doesn't really matter at this stage, when it comes to it if I need a new one doesn't matter if I need to buy a new one or an electrician does. I'll do my best to check but if I get it wrong, that's what the inspection is for right?

It's not very efficient to wait until a failed inspection tells you you've done something wrong.

How do any of us know anything?

By learning. And "learning" by just diving in and doing is not always a sensible idea.

The difficulty if a task is proportional to ones own experience and confidence. I'll manage.

No amount of "confidence" can substitute for necessary knowledge and experience.

 

[Notch7]

I want to move the CU and circuits in my old outhouse to my new garage, quite a simple task in the grand scheme of things and I'm confident I've got a reasonably good idea of what I'm doing. I'm certainly happy to do the work myself.

So I'm curious, what information is required to make a submission for building regs approval to the council? Will I need detailed designs and calculations, or will they just inspect and test once completed?

Thanks!

In practical terms, it cant be done. No electrician will certify work done by somebody else, certainly not somebody unqualified.

The cost of a new consumer unit and wiring isnt much for a garage, surely you would just start with new?

Your best bet would be to find a helpful electrician and suggest you do any of the donkey work for him -if there is any....

have a look on the IET forum, you will soon see after a few threads even electricians dont always agree on the correct ways to comply with the regs!

 

[JohnW2]

The cost of a new consumer unit and wiring isnt much for a garage, surely you would just start with new?

I would. However, as garages go, it's not a trivial 'sub-installation' that the OP is talking about ...

.... 6 internal sockets, 1 external socket, 2 external pir lights, 2 other external lights, roller garage door, 4 strip lights, two internal light switches, one external switch and the CU plus the connection to the house CU.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The cost of a new consumer unit and wiring isnt much for a garage, surely you would just start with new?

No choice in this case, as the old one is plastic.

 

[ChrisZx]

Age is irrelevant - the regulations have changed.

I'm not disputing you are right in this case, but incorrect as the blanket statement this was presented as

It's not very efficient to wait until a failed inspection tells you you've done something wrong.

For you, maybe. My time is free.

By learning. And "learning" by just diving in and doing is not always a sensible idea.

This isn't the time or the place for philosophy but I would dispute that first part. Agreed it is isn't always a sensible idea, but basic electrics and electrical safety is hardly rocket science.

No amount of "confidence" can substitute for necessary knowledge and experience.

You miss the point, I was referring to the perceived difficulty of a task. Confidence is most definitely a factor there.

In practical terms, it cant be done. No electrician will certify work done by somebody else, certainly not somebody unqualified.

So why do the council offer this route? It must be possible or they wouldn't offer it.

Their building regs charges document states: "Charges assume that any related domestic electrical works are to be undertaken and self-certified by a suitably qualified person and notified to the local authority through a competent person scheme (such as NICEIC Domestic Installer). Where such work is to be undertaken and is NOT going through a competent persons scheme provider an additional charge applies to cover the cost of electrical inspections and testing."

Then in the table of charges: "Domestic Electrical works not carried out under the Competent Persons Scheme" with a basis of charge as "Any other controllable electrical work" and a charge of £269.

If that doesn't mean they will inspect and test DIY work for £269 then I'm going to have to write to them strongly suggesting all council staff receive verbal reasoning training. But as has been said, ultimately I'll have to check with them.

The original question was what sort of info they would require up front!

Thanks everyone for your input so far.

 

[JohnW2]

If that doesn't mean they will inspect and test DIY work for £269 then I'm going to have to write to them strongly suggesting all council staff receive verbal reasoning training. But as has been said, ultimately I'll have to check with them.

I totally agree - but, as I said (and you agree), you need to ask them, since, as you imply, assumptions about their verbal reasoning abilities may be incorrect!

Also, as I asked BAS, if, in the context of electrical work, "inspection" (for which they are being paid £161) does not include testing, what on earth does it actually consist of?

Kind Regards, John