What is required for building regs application?

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm not disputing you are right in this case, but incorrect as the blanket statement this was presented as

What on earth are you talking about?

It wasn't a "blanket statement", it was specifically in response to your observation "Plastic I have little idea if it's reusable right now, it's only a couple of years old though."

That your plastic CU is only a couple of years old is irrelevant.

For you, maybe. My time is free.

Your time may be. Repeat visits and reinspections by Building Control after failing the first may not be.

This isn't the time or the place for philosophy but I would dispute that first part.

Indeed it is not. Which is why my reply to "How do any of us know anything?" had nothing to do with philosophy and everything to do with the context of this thread, i.e. the technical knowledge and practical experience necessary to carry out a particular task.

Agreed it is isn't always a sensible idea, but basic electrics and electrical safety is hardly rocket science.

It isn't. But I bet there is more involved than you think there is. You thought, for example, that you could just re-use the existing CU, and didn't even think to ask if you could do that, all you thought you needed to know was what information to provide to Building Control.

You ought to find a bit of time for the "philosophy" of unknown unknowns, and consider whether there might be things that you don't know but won't think to ask about because you simply have no idea they even exist.

You miss the point, I was referring to the perceived difficulty of a task. Confidence is most definitely a factor there.

You did not talk about perceived difficulty, what you said was "The difficulty if a task is proportional to ones own experience and confidence."

Faulty perceptions can be just as misleading as misplaced confidence. In fact the two can be intimately related.

So why do the council offer this route? It must be possible or they wouldn't offer it.

Notch7 appears to be introducing the issue of you getting an electrician to "sign it off", which is not the case. He is right in what he said wrt that, but I don't know why he brought it up.

Their building regs charges document states: "Charges assume that any related domestic electrical works are to be undertaken and self-certified by a suitably qualified person and notified to the local authority through a competent person scheme (such as NICEIC Domestic Installer). Where such work is to be undertaken and is NOT going through a competent persons scheme provider an additional charge applies to cover the cost of electrical inspections and testing."

Then in the table of charges: "Domestic Electrical works not carried out under the Competent Persons Scheme" with a basis of charge as "Any other controllable electrical work" and a charge of £269.

If that doesn't mean they will inspect and test DIY work for £269 then I'm going to have to write to them strongly suggesting all council staff receive verbal reasoning training. But as has been said, ultimately I'll have to check with them.

We hadn't seen that detailed wording before, and it does read as if they will do whatever I&T they feel is required to verify that your work complies with Part P. But they would not have been the first council to have a policy of charging extra for DIY electrical work and not actually doing anything in return. Yes, really.

The original question was what sort of info they would require up front!

They ought not to need anything beyond "all electrical installation work will comply with BS 7671".

But that can be something else for you to ask them.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Also, as I asked BAS, if, in the context of electrical work, "inspection" (for which they are being paid £161) does not include testing, what on earth does it actually consist of?

And I replied.

 

[JohnW2]

And I replied.

who said you didn't?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ChrisZx]

It isn't. But I bet there is more involved than you think there is. You thought, for example, that you could just re-use the existing CU, and didn't even think to ask if you could do that, all you thought you needed to know was what information to provide to Building Control.

It may have come across like that the way I wrote it, but in my defence I never actually thought that. I haven't gone through everything yet and figured out what I need, I was working on the assumption the CU would be ok but knew I'd have to check. But that wasn't the purpose of this thread so I didn't ask it here!

Hence some of my other answers actually, I was trying not to talk in detail about the specifics of my installation but you were so crossed wires! (pun intended)

If it turns out there's no way I'll be able to do this route with the council I won't bother figuring out what I need as an electrician will do it, so I'm doing things in order I believe.

You ought to find a bit of time for the "philosophy" of unknown unknowns, and consider whether there might be things that you don't know but won't think to ask about because you simply have no idea they even exist.

This one I like as it is a good point. Always a risk but the short answer is I don't think it's a big risk for me.

 

[ChrisZx]

The council got back to me in record time and confirmed that it does indeed include testing and that the council uses a third party for it. I have it in writing now as well so they shouldn't be able to back out of it!

Looks like I might have to give it a go! With regards to my original question I'm still unsure about it, but I guess there's only one way to find out.

 

[JohnW2]

The council got back to me in record time and confirmed that it does indeed include testing and that the council uses a third party for it. I have it in writing now as well so they shouldn't be able to back out of it!

Thanks for letting us know. As I said before, had that not been the case, I can't see that the £161 charge for 'inspection" would have made much sense (or, at least, be justifiable!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I agree it would be neither. But nor would it be unheard of. Although maybe not for some time.

 

[JohnW2]

I agree it would be neither. But nor would it be unheard of. Although maybe not for some time.

Agreed.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

With regards to my original question I'm still unsure about it, but I guess there's only one way to find out.

When you asked them what you got for your money, didn't you at the same time ask them what info you need to provide?

 

[ChrisZx]

When you asked them what you got for your money, didn't you at the same time ask them what info you need to provide?

No, to be honest I wanted to keep the question as simple as possible to maximise my chances of an answer, whenever I've tried contacting them in the past they haven't bothered replying!

Also I realised if I do it on notice I don't need to send anything when I apply. If they ask for anything afterwards I'll worry about it then! I figured the least I rock the boat the better

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Oh no no no no no - never do anything on a building notice.

They are great for builders who know exactly what they are doing, and want to save a bit of time.

For anybody else they have a truly awful risk:reward ratio. They save not one penny, and yet in return for saving nothing you take on risk.

With a plans submission you say "I will do A B &C, what do you think?", and they say "we think no good", and you can amend it to X, Y & Z and they say "that'll be fine". AFAIK that iterative process costs nothing extra.

With a building notice you say "I have done A, B & C, what do you think?", and they say "we think no good", at which point you undo A, B & C, do X, Y & Z instead, and then pay them for another inspection.

Try the simple "Part P compliance will be achieved by complying with the relevant requirements of Parts 1-5 & 7 of BS 7671", and see what they say.

 

[ChrisZx]

An update for anyone looking in the future, I submitted my application with only a small sentence saying I want to install 6 sockets, 3 light switches etc and nothing else really. Council asked for payment, then earlier this week I got a call from the contractor asking when they can come and inspect the first stage so looks like it's all fine!

Wiring in first with nothing connected for the first inspection then fully fitted for testing for the second inspection.

 

[JohnW2]

An update for anyone looking in the future, I submitted my application with only a small sentence saying I want to install 6 sockets, 3 light switches etc and nothing else really. Council asked for payment, then earlier this week I got a call from the contractor asking when they can come and inspect the first stage so looks like it's all fine!

I'm pleased to hear that things seem to be going according to plan.

Do I take it that you have determined that doing it yourself (and paying the £269 LABC fee) is a cost-effective approach?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ChrisZx]

I'm pleased to hear that things seem to be going according to plan.

Do I take it that you have determined that doing it yourself (and paying the £269 LABC fee) is a cost-effective approach?

Kind Regards, John

Not really, but it's more fun. I can't imagine an electrician could install and test it for less in west london but maybe I'm wrong. I wrote this before but its 6 internal sockets, 1 external socket, 2 external pir lights, 2 other external lights, roller garage door, 4 strip lights, two internal light switches, one external switch and the CU in a 6x5m garage plus the connection to the house CU via 35m SWA plus removing old CU and associated gubbins from old outhouse. My guess would be I've saved a few hundred at least but I'll admit that's not based off much more than a finger in the air! I'm happy either way.

 

[JohnW2]

Not really, but it's more fun.

Fair enough!

I can't imagine an electrician could install and test it for less in west london but maybe I'm wrong. I wrote this before but its 6 internal sockets, 1 external socket, 2 external pir lights, 2 other external lights, roller garage door, 4 strip lights, two internal light switches, one external switch and the CU in a 6x5m garage plus the connection to the house CU via 35m SWA plus removing old CU and associated gubbins from old outhouse.

Yes, but you could have paid an electrician just to provide a supply in the garage and install one or two sockets/lights. You could then have 'extended' those circuits yourself without the need for notification (or any fees).

The issue of testing of your 'additions' would then arise (even though it was not notifiable work), but that it an issue which arises in relation to any/all DIY electrical work.

Kind Regards, John