wheel bolts removal.

[The Baker]

Bloke across the street is unable to undo the wheel bolts on his ford focus using the tubular spanner supplied with the motor.

It has alloy wheels with heads of the bolts recessed in the wheel.

I have a 3/4 drive socket with an 18 inch T bar but unfortunately the outer diameter is just to big the fit in the recces.

My question is, would the wheel bolts be less likely to snap if a hammer drill is used than if I were to reduce the outer diameter of the 19mm 3/4 drive socket by a millimeter and increase the leverage by extending the T bar force with six foot if scaffold tube!

Tim

Ps I would apply tube of equal length to both sides of the T bar.

 

[Mottie]

Whatever method you use, you won’t snap even the tightest of wheel bolts when you are removing them. You might snap a cheap socket though.......

 

[bernardgreen]

As a last resort if the vehicle can be driven ( and is road legal ) then take it to a tyre centre and ask them to loosen the bolts and then re-tighten them to the manufacturer's recommended torque.

 

[Burnerman]

If it has a locking wheel bolt, take care to push the key fully home and undo it squarely.....you don't need any issues with those!
John

 

[jj4091]

If it has a locking wheel bolt, take care to push the key fully home and undo it squarely.....you don't need any issues with those!
John

And untighten that one before the others.

 

[fixitflav]

As a last resort if the vehicle can be driven ( and is road legal ) then take it to a tyre centre and ask them to loosen the bolts and then re-tighten them to the manufacturer's recommended torque.

And give them a smear of grease before replacing. So many wheel nuts have been overtightened by a fitter, and been on for a long time, bone dry. Most drivers, specially women, would have no chance of loosening them.

 

[Mottie]

And give them a smear of grease before replacing....

Err, no! I teach mechanics and in the Autodata book, the torque settings for a Ford for example has a note that clearly says no lube to be used. The settings are for dry threads only.

 

[fixitflav]

Err, no! I teach mechanics and in the Autodata book, the torque settings for a Ford for example has a note that clearly says no lube to be used. The settings are for dry threads only.

I know they say that for torque settings, GKN say the same in bolt catalogues for tightening torque. I don't think grease makes much difference in practice, my theory is that with ordinary grease the high contact pressure cuts though the grease layer, so friction isn't reduced much. A bit like greasing battery terminals, where you might think that would give resistance problems, but in practice any effect is unnoticeable, and any disadvantage is far outweighed by the benefit of no corrosion. Same with wheel nuts. I've been greasing them for over 50 years and never had a problem of them coming loose (or stripped thread).
I used to work with a woman who ran a Ford Orion, her wheel nuts were dry and a bit rusty so a colleague and I offered to remove and grease them. It took both of us with a socket set, me on one end of the T-bar, him jumping on the other. They cracked and banged as they came free, and we bent my T-bar. And hers didn't come loose afterwards either.

 

[JohnD]

I think I've seen tables of torque settings "dry" and "greased"

Where the fastening is going to suffer corrosion, I don't believe you can reasonably leave it dry.

 

[Mottie]

Do whatever you are comfortable with but when I am assessing a student who fails to notice the fact that the nuts shouldn't be greased, they get an automatic fail. Obviously, those tight nuts were gunned up without referring to any data in the first place and that's why they're hard to get off. Correctly torqued wheel bolts (greased or not) wont be hard to remove. Anyway, if the torque setting data says 'dry' and you ignore it, why even bother looking up the data in the first place?

 

[fixitflav]

I think I've seen tables of torque settings "dry" and "greased"

I think I've also seen "greased" torque data, but I can't remember offhand. My GKN data says their figures are for self-colour condition and do not take into account the effect of plated finishes, special lubricants or the effect of hard and smooth mating surfaces such as hardened washers. Perhaps ordinary automotive grease is not considered a "special" lubricant! Their formula is based on thread pitch 1/8 of bolt nominal diameter, bolt stress 80% of yield stress, and that only 10% of the applied torque produces tension in the bolt. But it's far from being an exact science and I've seen different torque figures from other sources.

Where the fastening is going to suffer corrosion, I don't believe you can reasonably leave it dry.

I agree completely.

 

[fixitflav]

Obviously, those tight nuts were gunned up without referring to any data in the first place and that's why they're hard to get off.

Not necessarily, if they'd been tightened about right they'd probably have come off OK after say 6 months, but if they've been on a few years and got rusty it's a different story.

why even bother looking up the data in the first place?

I don't look up the torque data, I tighten to what feels right (probably a bit tighter than the official figure if I'm honest). I'm a DIY-er, but that's what the vast majority of fitters do on the vast majority of bolts. I've never seen a tyre fitter use a torque wrench on wheel nuts. Sometimes they use a windy wrench first, then finish off manually.

 

[foxhole]

Bloke across the street is unable to undo the wheel bolts on his ford focus using the tubular spanner supplied with the motor.

It has alloy wheels with heads of the bolts recessed in the wheel.

I have a 3/4 drive socket with an 18 inch T bar but unfortunately the outer diameter is just to big the fit in the recces.

My question is, would the wheel bolts be less likely to snap if a hammer drill is used than if I were to reduce the outer diameter of the 19mm 3/4 drive socket by a millimeter and increase the leverage by extending the T bar force with six foot if scaffold tube!

Tim

Ps I would apply tube of equal length to both sides of the T bar.

Sudden force works easier , helped a little fella trying to undo his wheel nut, he was standing on the tyre lever with his entire body weight without success , I just gave it a kick and released it .

 

[rsgaz]

This is from Ford's own Workshop Repair Manual (for a Focus) that staff use in the dealerships. The lubricate vs non-lubricate gets a 'bit' more complicated!!

So, no lube where the nuts contact the wheel. Yes lube, but only a little, allowed on the threads.

 

[EFLImpudence]

May I ask - why?

I, a very old amateur, have always greased wheel nuts with copper grease and never had a problem - nor any comment from tyre shops when they have had to remove the wheels.