When It Goes Wrong

[westie101]

Switchgear Failure

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[dingodeano]

Christ.
Is that on a private piece of land ? Looks a nice stone enclosure better than the brick substations on our estate.

 

[RF Lighting]

Ooops!

Do you know what caused the failure yet?

 

[westie101]

Is that on a private piece of land

Yes it is, and in the middle of the Lake District so it had to fit in with the surrounds

 

[westie101]

RF

It's fairly recent (4th Jan) so as yet we don't know.

 

[ricicle]

Loving the signs on the switches just in case anyone thinks of operating them !!

 

[RF Lighting]

Loving the signs on the switches just in case anyone thinks of operating them !!

I'm guessing they're still live?

 

[westie101]

I'm guessing they're still live?

Nope all dead, but we still have to follow the correct isolation & earthing procedures until the cables are cut, which disconnects them from the system.

 

[RF Lighting]

When something like this happens, how do you go about tackling the fire? Do you advise the fire service? I'm guessing for them to empty hundreds of galons of water onto it isn't the best idea. Even more so if there's oil filled switchgear in there.

 

[JohnW2]

When something like this happens, how do you go about tackling the fire? Do you advise the fire service? I'm guessing for them to empty hundreds of galons of water onto it isn't the best idea. Even more so if there's oil filled switchgear in there.

I would assume that electrical fires, in electrical environments, are one of the types of fires that firefighters are specifically trained and equipped to deal with. I haven't got much of a clue, but would guess that they probably major on things like CO2, powder and probably other chemical agents (and perhaps foam, particularly if the oil gets involved) - obviously not water.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ricicle]

Iirc powder and foam cannot be used on HV fires (assuming that the gear was live)

 

[westie101]

When something like this happens, how do you go about tackling the fire? Do you advise the fire service? I'm guessing for them to empty hundreds of galons of water onto it isn't the best idea. Even more so if there's oil filled switchgear in there.

I would assume that electrical fires, in electrical environments, are one of the types of fires that firefighters are specifically trained and equipped to deal with. I haven't got much of a clue, but would guess that they probably major on things like CO2, powder and probably other chemical agents (and perhaps foam, particularly if the oil gets involved) - obviously not water.

Kind Regards, John

After one or two incidents it actually became clear that the FS had no idea how to deal with this sort of fire or the safety issues involved.

After a lot of training we have now got them to accept that there is not much point, unless there is a risk to adjacent property, in trying to put it out as the gear is scrap anyway!

They now accept that we take the lead in advising them on the safety issues and they do not enter, unless life is at risk, until we give them the all clear. This involves us properly isolating and earthing the HV system and isolating any LV inter-connectors.

We would then issue appropriate documentation. this came to a head after some incidents in the past where both Fire & Police officers were injured through their lack of knowledge

 

[JohnW2]

Iirc powder and foam cannot be used on HV fires (assuming that the gear was live)

Yes, as you will have seen, I was a bit uncertain about foam - but in the case of powder, I imagine that it probably depends upon what sort of powder one is talking about.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

After one or two incidents it actually became clear that the FS had no idea how to deal with this sort of fire or the safety issues involved.

I have to say, that rather surprises me.

After a lot of training we have now got them to accept that there is not much point, unless there is a risk to adjacent property, in trying to put it out as the gear is scrap anyway

That makes sense, but I wonder how often it is practical? In my village both the substations/transformer enclosures (or whatever you call them) of which I am aware (there may be more) are immediately adjacent to residential properties - so that a major fire in either of them could not really be allowed to go uncontrolled. I'm not suggesting that firefighters should, or necessarily need to, 'enter' - but they presumably have to do something to at least limit the spread of a major fire? Do you know what agents/methods they employ in such situations?

Kind Regards, John

 

[westie101]

but they presumably have to do something to at least limit the spread of a major fire? Do you know what agents/methods they employ in such situations?

Just as they have done to protect substations from adjacent properties that are on fire, they would set up a water curtain between the two so avoiding any electrical risks.

I attended, some years ago, a fire in a major supermarket with an outdoor substation adjacent to the store. After I had isolated and earthed the HV supply to the store I discussed the situation with the fire officer in charge and we agreed that it would be of benefit to keep the network substation live as it maintained the street lighting in the area. They very quickly set up 2 ground monitors to put a water curtain between the two if needed.

(it also kept an adjacent McDonalds on supply, they had no customers as the roads were closed but were feeding all of us involved with the fire all evening!!)