True as that may be, provided the defense is half awake, you have no chance proving that beyond doubt. We all know that the mp who was claiming for his mortgage payments was perfectly aware that he didn't have one, and that the burglar that stabbed the owner did not "just happen" to have a knife handy, but not a single lawyer in the country has worked out how to prove it.
Where do I stand
- Thread starter Beckmeister General
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this boiler looks, from the flue arrangement to be the same as a chaff...
(yes we know Ariston took over Chaff), we have been changing the inner flue seal (available as a spare part) which has been corroding away even though the appliance HAS BEEN INSTALLED correctly, so don't rush to blame the installer.
(yes we know Ariston took over Chaff), we have been changing the inner flue seal (available as a spare part) which has been corroding away even though the appliance HAS BEEN INSTALLED correctly, so don't rush to blame the installer.
Combine that with failing to carry out maintenance conform the M.I. and the installer walks out of court, leaving the op with a knackered boiler AND a hefty legal bill.
In a criminal case the guilt has to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt.
That does not apply to civil claims! They have to be proved just to the balance of probability.
However, information provided above changes the situation!
I, and everyone else, had not previously heard of any inherent defect on that model before. Assuming thats true, which I am happy to accept, then the boiler does apparently have a defect.
However, that does not give rise to a good claim against Ariston because the householder failed to have the boiler serviced as required at the end of the first year. If that had been done then the early signs of the problem could have been identified and deat with.
In the revised circumstances you should contact Ariston, in writing, stating that their boiler obviously has a design fault and you expect them to deal with it.
To persue a claim against them you will need substanciated evidence in writing. "How Much longer" may be able to help you here. An anomous posting on an internet forum does NOT constitute evidence though.
Hailshams forthcoming advice to persue the installer is questionable given that, in good faith, he fitted a boiler supplied by a reputable manufacturer. He fully expected you would have had it serviced at the end of the first year and any defects would have been dealt with at that time. I still say persue Ariston! They have a warehouse full of boilers and spare parts and could easily give you whatever is needed to sort it out. The installer is wondering where his next meal is coming from.
Tony
That does not apply to civil claims! They have to be proved just to the balance of probability.
However, information provided above changes the situation!
I, and everyone else, had not previously heard of any inherent defect on that model before. Assuming thats true, which I am happy to accept, then the boiler does apparently have a defect.
However, that does not give rise to a good claim against Ariston because the householder failed to have the boiler serviced as required at the end of the first year. If that had been done then the early signs of the problem could have been identified and deat with.
In the revised circumstances you should contact Ariston, in writing, stating that their boiler obviously has a design fault and you expect them to deal with it.
To persue a claim against them you will need substanciated evidence in writing. "How Much longer" may be able to help you here. An anomous posting on an internet forum does NOT constitute evidence though.
Hailshams forthcoming advice to persue the installer is questionable given that, in good faith, he fitted a boiler supplied by a reputable manufacturer. He fully expected you would have had it serviced at the end of the first year and any defects would have been dealt with at that time. I still say persue Ariston! They have a warehouse full of boilers and spare parts and could easily give you whatever is needed to sort it out. The installer is wondering where his next meal is coming from.
Tony
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It's the installers responsibility to put it right.
Phone Consumer Direct and ask their advice, Tel 08454 040506. They were very helpful when I had problems recently with a faulty LCD monitor.
See Out of Guarantee Items
Phone Consumer Direct and ask their advice, Tel 08454 040506. They were very helpful when I had problems recently with a faulty LCD monitor.
See Out of Guarantee Items
That is arguable at best, it most certainly has no legal foundation.
Despite your advanced age, you still don't seem to have figured out that the vast majority of initiatives, guidelines, laws and regulations that have been devised by this government, do little more than keep politicians and civics in a job.
Due to the incompetence of the people involved, and the need for pc nonsense, it is neigh on impossible to force the installer to repair a faulty boiler.
Not having warmed a single house in the country with a boiler installation, you obviously only know what you have read in which magazine, and government issued leaflets.
1. Sale of Goods Act
2. Supply of Goods and Services Act
Presumably you mean Which? magazine; in which case, you are wrong. I never read it. In any case their "members' surveys" are always suspect as people tend to reply if they have problems with their car/washing machine/TV etc, but not if they have no problem.
Up date
Phoned Ariston up and they said they'll get one of their engineers to come out to assess.
Turns out its the local company who installed it.
Any questions I should ask?
Bear in mind in 2 days out of guarentee and I have only just had the first service.
My main argument is that if it was a faulty valve or plc board its a fair cop BUT this is a major fault and surely shouldn't happen this early during the boilers life and I would expect all works and materials F-O-C.
Reasonable or not?
Phoned Ariston up and they said they'll get one of their engineers to come out to assess.
Turns out its the local company who installed it.
Any questions I should ask?
Bear in mind in 2 days out of guarentee and I have only just had the first service.
My main argument is that if it was a faulty valve or plc board its a fair cop BUT this is a major fault and surely shouldn't happen this early during the boilers life and I would expect all works and materials F-O-C.
Reasonable or not?
Your problem would be not serviced @ 12 months.
Checking back we have been aware of this problem for 12 months or so! we simply change the seal at the time of service, job done.
Checking back we have been aware of this problem for 12 months or so! we simply change the seal at the time of service, job done.
I agree that, if the fault has been caused by lack of service, Ariston may wash their hands and expect you to pay as they probably state in the guarantee that the boiler must be serviced every year or the guarantee is invalid.
If the fault is due to incorrect installation, you should not be expected to pay a penny. The Supply of Goods and Services Act, Section 13 says.
13 Implied term about care and skill
In a contract for the supply of a service where the supplier is acting in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the supplier will carry out the service with reasonable care and skill.
Now if the boiler has been incorrectly fitted then, obviously the supplier has not used reasonable care and skill. He is therefore in breach of contract and you have six years from the time you discover the fault to sue him for breach of contract.
I don't know if this is relevant, but on this particular boiler when installing the flue vertically, the boilers height must be adjusted to suit the flue. So, the flue cannot be cut in any way.
Whether this would make an installation error more likely, i do not know but would guess it would.
I installed one and encountered this problem, plus the fact that it cannot be used on a "Y" plan without some sort of volt-free relay was enough to make it my last CLAS install.
Whether this would make an installation error more likely, i do not know but would guess it would.
I installed one and encountered this problem, plus the fact that it cannot be used on a "Y" plan without some sort of volt-free relay was enough to make it my last CLAS install.
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It looks like a joint came loose in the vertical flue possibly higher up allowing condense to leak into outer flue and run down.
Have seen this loads of times on Isars with long horizontal flue runs or with a couple of bends.
Usually an instal problem or on new build the flue being moved by the joiners etc after instal!
Have seen this loads of times on Isars with long horizontal flue runs or with a couple of bends.
Usually an instal problem or on new build the flue being moved by the joiners etc after instal!
The flue bends at 90 degrees straight from the boiler and goes thro the outside wall
Sorry, looked like a vertical flue. Difficult to see how it's been fitted incorrectly then.
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I thought it was vertical too!
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