Which trade costs the most?

[masona]

Too true,we've got them at work and most of them are the laziest people I ever come across,they are too laid back and think the world owe them a living.

Thankfully not all students are like that, but the type you mention give all students a bad name.

I didn't say all,I said most of them

I'm teaching University student now on a process unit at work and now passed him to someone else because he make everything sound impossible and hard work & keep looking down at me.Even the company are getting fed up with them!! BUT some are good and they were telling me they used to get up 10am start swotting to dinner time (2hrs break) then another 2hrs swotting,finish for the day then party to midnight then come to us and don't know what hit them ! Too much freedom I think

 

[coggy]

Hi
Just to add my info. I am a fully qualified joiner and just starting my own business and have been doing my prices recently. I will be charging between £10 and £15 per hour depending on the size of the job, which on average will give me a guide of £100 per day. I also have a basic price list to guide me aswell foor hanging doors, fitting skirtings and combine the 2 methods to get a price. This is for labour only, materials are on top and i add my travelling expenses to the cost of matereials.

I still seek a lot of advise on work and you are always learning and even though im qualified and have experience of working in a joiners shop i still need advice on fitting eg Masona has given me some great advice on laying a floor in my lounge.

Hope this helps

Coggy

 

[mildmanneredjanitor]

Good luck!

Be glad to pass on any info I can.

 

[coggy]

Thanks mildmanneredjanitor

Are you a joiner yourself ? If you are how do you work your prices, i would be interested. By the way i live in Sheffield.

Thanks
Coggy

 

[mildmanneredjanitor]

Hi Coggy,

No, I am not a joiner in the 6 year apprentiship scheme of things!

But I did work in a joinery firm for a number of years on the bench and on the machines. So built up quite a good all-round knowledge.

I've done allsorts! But setup last year on my own, doing allsorts. Domestic, Marine maintenance. So I'm still learning!

As for pricing, I charge £13 ph or £100 per day, and it's always difficult to guestimate how long a job is going to take. One thing I will say is, if you estimate 2 days - say 2 1/2 to the customer. One thing that makes a customer happy is that the final bill is less than anticipated! But if a job takes much longer I still don't go over %10 of the estimate (as a rule).

For bigger jobs, I usually knock of %10/15 as you can afford to earn less if you have guranteed work for a fortnight. But if the work is coming in thick and fast, then don't discount! Just keep it saved up for Christmas! You'll know what I mean in December!

BTW, It's a fantastic forum here, you'll find it a fantastic resource.

Once again good luck!

 

[cjgarlick]

Hi Janitor -

I'm interested in your comment from a few days ago:-

Speaking from my own experience, I am not a qualified electrician, plumber, joiner, plasterer, decorator etc. so I do not charge as much per hour. But saying that, I am probably slower than a qualified tradesman!

I have about 10 years' experience doing a wide range of domestic work, but always just for myself - ie, have rewired 2 or 3 houses, installed central heating systems, done a lot of plastering and bricklaying, completed a barn conversion...etc. So, I'd say I have a bit of experience, and an amount of aptitude, and certainly some interest in that kind of work.

I'm hacked off with my current job (computing) and I'm really looking at options. However, becoming a 'qualified' electrician or plumber (my 2 favourite areas) is well nigh impossible for me due to the need for workplace assessments to get an NVQ. I can't financially afford to leave work and pursue a 2 year apprenticeship.

I was interested to read that you aren't 'qualified' in any of the areas you list, yet it seems like you're earning a living doing that kind of work. My question would be - accepting of course the need for competence and experience - have you ever found it to be a problem that you didn't have that NVQ in your back pocket? What's the impact in terms of (eg) getting professional indemnity insurance, or even just attracting work?

 

[mildmanneredjanitor]

I'd love to get back into IT!!!!!

Don't do it!

You think I've done this through choice! Ha Ha Ha!!!!!

I think I might train for my MCSE. With all these IT professionals becoming gas engineers etc. I reckon they may be a real IT skills shortage in the future! You can earn up to £100k a year you know...

Hang on a minute...

On a serious note tho...

As for electrical, that's a non starter unless you wish to start from scratch (not an option with a family). Just look through the electrical forum for stuff on 'part P'.

In the end I reckon that you won't be allowed to do anything even in your own home. Some much for 'an Englishman's home is his castle'.

It'll be car maintenance next, you'll see...

 

[cjgarlick]

Ah, Ok.... I'm detecting a bit of cynicism here !!

Just to be clear, here are the reasons why what you do seems very appealing:-

1) Doing something you enjoy (altho' its clearly different building your own house to crawling around in someone else's filthy attic......?)

2) Self-determination - in charge of your own career path / specialisms / workload / routine

3) Your own boss - no annual appraisals, no backstabbing colleagues, no 90 minute drive up the motorway to get to a soul-less office job which will bleach away your spirit until you retire, an empty and disillusioned shell...

4) (Apparently) reasonably buoyant market with decent money if you're prepared to graft for it

... Just to touch back on my original question - are you saying that it's not as rewarding as it may seem, unless you can do the full-blown NVQ / apprenticeship thing ? If so, is this because of the lack of formal qualifications (ie - it's hard to find work etc) or in fact because the work is not what it seems?

From experience, do you *enjoy* what you do, and does it pay the bills? Are you 'more', 'less' or 'similarly' stressed compared to when you were in IT? (Accepting that there are probably different stresses, of course).

I agree with you that electrical is out of the question. Ironically my ex-father in law was an electrician with his own firm. Maybe I should have stuck with his daughter a bit longer !! I think plumbing is the area for me.... but the same requirement for workplace assessment still applies if you want NVQ2 or 3.

For what it's worth I have an MCSE, also CNE3 and CNE4. Years of effort and experience there, and my salary now is 15% less than it was 4 years ago. I need to leave home at 07:00 just to get to the crummy place I've been forced to take a job in, and I don't get home before 19:00. I guess many plumbers or electricians work similar hours to that, but working them for yourself has got to be better than working them for someone else... (??)

Sorry to the list, by the way, if this is going off-topic..... but I do think the question re. formal qualifications is relevant to the original posting about what trades are 'worth'.....

 

[Handyman]

have you ever found it to be a problem that you didn't have that NVQ in your back pocket? What's the impact in terms of (eg) getting professional indemnity insurance, or even just attracting work?

I'm not qualified (other than by experience) and I don't have an NVQ, but I'm inundated with work - all within 5 minutes of my home. Currently, I'm booking from mid June onwards. I charge £20 for the first hour of any job, then anything between £10 & £15/hour, depending on skill level and tool usage (jobs requiring heavy use of power tools command a bit more to cover wear & tear). Three things which I seem to offer over and above other local tradesmen are: (1) I will do small jobs without ripping people off; (2) I guarantee a good job; and (3) I turn up when I say I will. (These three simple attributes enhance reputation, and customers will always come back for more work and will recommend you to others).

I had no problem in securing Public Liability insurance, and through my local broker, went with MMA who have provided £1m liability cover for £107 (I can upgrade this to £2m for an extra 30 quid, if £2m is specified by the client). I pay the first £250 of any claim, and my cover is more or less for all trades, including plumbing work (which has water leak risk and fire risk from use of blowlamp) providing it does not exceed 10% of my total business.

For the record, Fortis quoted £231 for the same cover. Also, for the record, not one customer has yet questioned whether I have liability insurance. They just want the work done.

I love what I do. I meet nice people, work on some interesting properties all within 5 minutes of my home, I earn an honest wage, I work from 9 until 6 on most days, and come home for lunch. What could be better?

So, cjgarlick, where are you going wrong? Can't you reduce your hours, and reject the crummy places?

 

[mildmanneredjanitor]

Ah, Ok.... I'm detecting a bit of cynicism here !!

Just to be clear, here are the reasons why what you do seems very appealing:-

1) Doing something you enjoy (altho' its clearly different building your own house to crawling around in someone else's filthy attic......?)

I don't enjoy doing work at home so much now!

2) Self-determination - in charge of your own career path / specialisms / workload / routine

Yes, fantastic! But does require a lot of self motivation

3) Your own boss - no annual appraisals, no backstabbing colleagues, no 90 minute drive up the motorway to get to a soul-less office job which will bleach away your spirit until you retire, an empty and disillusioned shell...

I'm married, I'm not kidding anyone...

4) (Apparently) reasonably buoyant market with decent money if you're prepared to graft for it

When it rains it pours! I am currently suffering a drought!

... Just to touch back on my original question - are you saying that it's not as rewarding as it may seem, unless you can do the full-blown NVQ / apprenticeship thing ? If so, is this because of the lack of formal qualifications (ie - it's hard to find work etc) or in fact because the work is not what it seems?

I find what I do very rewarding, and I love the fact I'm doing something different every day - but like I said I cover many disciplines. Something which may have to change.

From experience, do you *enjoy* what you do, and does it pay the bills? Are you 'more', 'less' or 'similarly' stressed compared to when you were in IT? (Accepting that there are probably different stresses, of course).

Yes, It pays the bills, but is is a worry when work is thin on the ground, but this is the same for any self employed person.

I agree with you that electrical is out of the question. Ironically my ex-father in law was an electrician with his own firm. Maybe I should have stuck with his daughter a bit longer !! I think plumbing is the area for me.... but the same requirement for workplace assessment still applies if you want NVQ2 or 3.

Suprising that there never seem to be vacancies for (semi) skilled tradesmen?

For what it's worth I have an MCSE, also CNE3 and CNE4. Years of effort and experience there, and my salary now is 15% less than it was 4 years ago. I need to leave home at 07:00 just to get to the crummy place I've been forced to take a job in, and I don't get home before 19:00. I guess many plumbers or electricians work similar hours to that, but working them for yourself has got to be better than working them for someone else... (??)

You've gotta be happy at work, it's where you spend most of your time!
But it definately works for me!

Sorry to the list, by the way, if this is going off-topic..... but I do think the question re. formal qualifications is relevant to the original posting about what trades are 'worth'.....

Like I said, I probably charge considerably less than any of the trades that I cover, but qualifications aren't the bee all and end all! some of the shoddy work I have seen by 'professionals' over the years, leaves a lot to be desired!

 

[mildmanneredjanitor]

Handyman,

Presumably most of your work is by refferal, but how did you advertise initially???

In the beginning I did look into registering with age concern, but Age Concern now have a stringent vetting procedure requiring people to be qualified (which I wasn't at anything!) But to be honest, this is a good procedure. This was recommended by a neighbour of mine who started a gardening business and was inundated within a month, but that was prior to the vetting procedure.

And what kind of work do you do? Varied obviously! but just wondered what the majority of your jobs were?

janitor

 

[Handyman]

I took a 5 line ad in the local freebie newspaper, and that's all, and I've just cancelled that for a couple of weeks, because I'm so busy.

Yes, I do pretty much most things. I don't do roofing and can't do plastering. Most of the work I do is a combination of stuff, and seems to come in phases. Currently, I've got 3 bathroooms to tile, but a few months ago, it was all carpentry. Last couple of weeks, it was decorating.

If I'm doing, say, a tiling job, whilst I might not be the world's fastest tiler, I also have the carpentry skills to contsruct (say) a kitchen cupboard, and electrician's skills to fit a new socket, and my customers all prefer to deal with one person.

I also have the common sense to do any job properly. 25% of my work is tidying up after other trades have bodged things up.

I don't do jobs where any vetting procedure is in force (because I would be vetted by those who were inexperienced and likely to know less about doing the work than I do There's no recognised qualification for common sense, and that's all that's reqired in many cases.

I promise a good job, and that underpins all that I do.

In fact, my original posting was prompted by my thoughts to (may be) charge acording to which trade predominates in any particular job.

 

[cjgarlick]

Handyman / Janitor -

Thanks for your comments.

Handyman - to answer your question 'where are you going wrong?'..... I think it's just that I am very conscious that I don't really enjoy what I'm doing, and I'm the only one who can change things. It's not really the hours (we all have to work after all...) or the long trip, although these do take their toll when it's just a treadmill. It's also the feeling of having just 'drifted' into a career rather than having chosen it. I think a lot of people in IT probably get that feeling, especially in project management which is where I am.

To be honest, faced with a computer I would far rather take it to bits to see how it works, than use it to create an impressive spreadsheet... ! I suppose that says something (not sure what tho' )

I suppose the question I would still ask is - for both of you I guess there was a point in the past where you decided to use an interest, or skills acquired through DIY perhaps, as a way of earning a living. In the absence of (eg) formal qualifications... how on earth do you make that leap of faith and go for it? How do you know you're good enough?

From both of you it sounds like the continued support of your customers goes a long way towards building your own self-confidence and business confidence too... but (assuming nobody's house burns down or gets flooded...) how long does it take to get to a point where you feel you've earned your place at the table, so to speak?

Way off topic now so apologies once again to Handyman - but I am finding this very useful and interesting.

BTW - Janitor, if you want to get back into IT, why don't we just do a swap !! Where are you 2 guys btw?

 

[mildmanneredjanitor]

Personally, I was quite happy when I worked at an Air Traffic Control/Air Defence training college looking after the radar simulators. Really interesting work, I started as a 'Sim Pilot' which means acting as voice for the pilot and (manouvering) the blips on the scope. Then progressed to supervisor, involved in a variety of quite large projects.

Unfortunately, the place was relocated and I wanted to stay in Torbay so accepted redundancy Dec 99 Happy New Year!!!

So then worked at a Optoelectronics company for a year and realised I wasn't getting anywhere, so left to work for a luxury boat manufacturer - prepping new boats, warranty work etc.

I did that for two years and built a good rapport with the customers and enjoyed the work - but 6 day weeks, boat shows etc. not good for family life!

So I applied for another job, had the interview and was offered the job, then after I resigned, they withdrew the offer (very simplistic breakdown!)

So, at the ripe old age of 35 and unemployed, I decided that now I had good contacts and a wide range of skills to offer, it was worth a try on my own!

So, it wasn't planned! It just happened, but sometimes we all need a little nudge!

 

[mildmanneredjanitor]

CJG,

Just a thought...

If you are up on your (hardware) IT skills, why test the water and see if there is a market for providing IT support for smaller companies?? As I understand it there is a huge market for supplying IT support for companies that do not have there own IT infrastructure?

That would get you 'hands on' which you like and you already have the accreditation that is required?

You could even take the retainer route, a small sum per month in exchange for guaranteed call out. Which would provide a regular income.

Who'd have thought, me offering career advice!