Why is it difficult to obtain a written quote

[chr15]

With all due respect, all the tradesmen on here and elsewhere will have their own way of quoting be it verbal, written, or whatever else way there is to do it. There is no right or wrong way and if the way they choose to do it works for them and they are busy and working fairly constantly then good luck to them.

Being a one man band or fairly small business is hard work at the best of times and giving yourself extra work that you don't need to do is just a waste of time and resources.
In my opinion of course.

 

[topgazza]

Dave...and Chr15.....I agree..I think a lot of the public, bit of a generalisation I know, just don't get what a profit is. Your profit is your wage...

There is no doubt in my mind that the "trades" get bad press...but sadly they often don't help themselves. I am suggesting that the "smart" tradesman wins more profitable business if the perception of the customer is that is is a professional..even if he is a one man band. I blame the building trade myself with all the piece work rates being paid by the big house builders undermining prices elsewhere. Maybe not the whole reason but it can't help

I don't envy the pressure of trying to generate business, maintain business and run a business that is so time heavy on the tools as plumbing is. I don't think many one man bands will be retiring to Barbados by the time they are 45...


But quotes also protect the installer as well as the customer. Of course even the best job in the world, on time and to budget can be ruined by some idiot who didn't read the quote properly and wanted the feed pipe 2mm to the left of where it was installed.

I also don't think £5-600 is too much to install a boiler in a straight swap....you're paying for a skill after all...something unique if you like. Those that have bothered to be Corgi registered and maintain that status quite rightly expect a higher day rate than some others. That is business...as long as that rate is not excessive. I have a lot of respect for the guys here...in fact for ALL tradesmen who strike out on their own.

 

[mehran]

Sure I could do two boilers a week if I condemn every boiler I come across but as it is I don’t!! I could throw a boiler on the wall from the front door for cheap as you like. The cheaper you go the more corners that get cut but I don’t.

Written quotes are easy in my world. If you as for one then you are telling me "I am a time waster" or phone up and ask for a "freeee quote", It makes me laugh when they do that they really do say it like that

Just imagine how much time one customer could tie up simply asking every plumber/gas engineer in the local area for a free written quote. In the end it does not matter what is written on the paper that matters only the price on the bottom that matters to them.... anyway that is what I have found

 

[EliteHeat]

OK, here's a typical request for a quote. How many would bother with this customer?

Hi there I need a quote for a straight swap new gas boiler installation for my flat. I am based in Bethnal Green E2 (East London). My current boiler is a 12 year old Saunier Duval, it is old and has been problematic so needs replacing. My flat is a 3 bed flat and has 8 radiators as well as 1 bath. I am ready to place my order as soon as a suitable engineer is found, this I hope will be ASAP but will want to start the work within a week. I have a few requirements for any engineer/company that would like to bid. They are: ENGINEER/COMPANY DETAILS: 1) The engineer MUST be CORGI registered (please supply details) 2) The engineer/company MUST accept credit card as a form of payment. 3) Please provide your contact details such as address, telephone etc. 4) Also if you are a member of trade associations such as IPHE or IDHE this would further increase my interest in your bid. BOILER DETAILS: 5) I would prefer a Vaillant or a Worcester Bosch Boiler as I have heard they are good (but am open to suggestions). This boiler should have a guarantee, but a extended company guarantee on top is ideal. 6) Would also like a efficient boiler, a SEDBUK A rated boiler is ideal (but would possibly consider a B rated boiler) 7) I need a boiler that will be powerful enough to supply all my property needs (I think maybe a modulating power of 25Kw ) EXTRA DETAILS I would also like a quote having the following in addition to the boiler: Flushing of the Central Heating system 9) Addition of inhibitor 10) Completion of the Benchmark log (installation and service record) 11) Notification of the installation to Building Control with a CORGI certificate issued. So these are my requirements. I am flexible in terms of a company or individual bidding, but ABOVE ALL must be reliable and have good customer care if any problems arise. So please provide TWO quotes. Quote 1 should be LABOUR ONLY with me supplying the parts Quote 2 should include Parts and Labour Please make sure to include VAT if charged and also the duration needed. Please respond to my query as soon as possible, I will then call close the advert and award the job. Many Thanks

 

[ChrisR]

Topgazza - nothing at all unreasonable in what you're saying, it seems to me.
Very often I find I don't need to give a quote for what I/we do, for the same reason as namsag. I know the people, or their contacts, and there's trust.
But yes a Template in Word, with all the usual stuff about guarantees, parking, whatever, doesn't take long, and then they're mostly the same, especially for a provisional quote:

• Remove old boiler
  Powerflush system
  Add thermostatic radiator valves to 3 bedrooms
  Install Acme Whizzofire 43kW boiler in appoximately the same place as the existing boiler
  The work will take approximately nnn days

Took me 35 seconds and I can't type!
Quite often these days an email can be used, too.

Edits - for correcting typos, so double the time...!

 

[giblets]

An excellent post, topgazza.

You make comment about comparing quotes however, regretfully the majority of the British public look at one thing and one thing only - the price; the bottom line; whatever you wish to call it. Very few of them have the technical knowledge to disseminate what is actually contained in a specification - if they did they would be writing the specs themselves and then going out for comparable prices. At the moment Bloggs and Son could quote for a B&Q special offer boiler bunged in over one day and I may quote for a top of the range boiler and carry out all the required system cleaning, TRV's, interlocked controls, GWN, etc., etc. My price may be over £1000 more than Bloggs & Son but I am seen as being the rip-off merchant for charging so much more than the "benchmark" that they perceive B&S's quote to be.

The worst ones are those that press you for "a ball-park figure, I won't hold you to it" (yea, right). You know then that they have had other prices and they are just "testing the water" so to speak.

 

[topgazza]

I going to find myself agreeing with all the replies here....

I now have this vision now of a plumber who just does boiler replacements all the time and drives a Bentley convertible....and uses diamond encrusted wrenches....

Timewasters are a real problem in any walk of life and yes, I too would not give a written quote at the information gathering stage that most customers go through...that would be taking the p**ss in my book to ask for that.

My approach is simple, several verbal quotes...pick the best two, depending on price AND confidence in the person...so not always the cheapest quote...and then ask for detailed quotes. Obviously someone is going to lose but thats life. I would hope that people don't just supply written quotes to the business they are likely to win anyway...but its a tough call I know. How much effort do I put in to win something and how to judge those that I will and those that I won't ?

 

[topgazza]

Topgazza - nothing at all unreasonable in what you're saying, it seems to me.
Very often I find I don't need to give a quote for what I/we do, for the same reason as namsag. I know the people, or their contacts, and there's trust.
But yes a Template in Word, with all the usual stuff about guarantees, parking, whatever, doesn't take long, and then they're mostly the same, especially for a provisional quote:

• Remove old boiler
  Powerflush system
  Add thermostatic radiator valves to 3 bedrooms
  Install Acme Whizzofire 43kW boiler in appoximately the same place as the existing boiler
  The work will take approximately nnn days

Took me 35 seconds and I can't type!
Quite often these days an email can be used, too.

Edits - for correcting typos, so double the time...!

I'd accept that quote...and by email as well. All I would ask is that the quote states that it is inclusive of all work required to carry it out. So no surprises,,,although to be fair , and this has happened to me...if someone found that due to unforeseen circumstances there was a bit more work than quoted for I would be happy to discuss that in a positive way. Thats the rub isn't it ? You should build in a small...say 5% contingency, or whatever people do, for that sort of thing...even if its done subconciously....as part of the overall quote.

A quote is a quote and an estimate is well......and I'm sure plenty here have had that horrible debate with a customer over what was quoted and what was done and whos paying for what etc...not nice

An important thing is mentioned by giblets in that trust plays a part...it shouldn't mist over the quote of course...there are some legal things that need to be covered and the quote will do that. In reality I would seek recommendations where I can to reduce the number of people quoting, saving their time and mine of course..or use the excellent sites like checkatrade if in doubt.

 

[namsag]

Im glad i live in a mainly working class town where your word is your bond and you get your work by how good a job you do. Talk to customer tell them what your going to do and what they want if you miss something never charge for it (but if you look right you won`t miss anything major)even when customer wants too pay .. Never take a penny till job is completed 75% want to pay you in cash no matter how dear. Only ever been done for 50 quid.
I do sympathise with some of you from cities , i dont think i could be ars#d with half the hassle you get

 

[Agile]

..I would hate to say yes and then find when I get the written quote I disagree with some of the work descriptions.

A provisional written quote is the bare minimum I would expect...until formally accepting. How can I compare quotes if I have nothing formal in writing so I can compare eggs for eggs?

Clearly you dont understand just whats involved in plumbing and heating work. Why dont you want to accept a verbal quote. I suppose your answer is that you would not trust me. In that case I would certainly not trust you!

It would take about two hours to fully check many existing installations to ensure that you have not overlooked copper plated steel pipe, one pipe systems and primatic cylinders or other disasters.

For those who are so short of work that they must visit EVERY possibility of an installation thats about six hours pre contract unpaid work even if they get one in three.

If you bothered to speak to me on the telephone you would pretty quickly realise that I have a good understanding of the industry. To keep our costs to a minimum I dont make visits to free loaders who want a two hour discussion of their best system options and then get Mr Polski to fit it for them. I only visit someone who I genuinely expect to be getting us to do the work.

Similarly I dont make free visits to faulty boilers to find the fan has failed and then they say "thank you we will call you" only to go and get and fit a new fan themselves.

We charge for all diagnostic visits and fit the parts free!

We clearly give our charges before attending even if not asked and we suggest possible faults and the consequent costs based on the boiler model and symptoms.

Tony

A little self-promoting has been deleted. Mod

 

[Softus]

Oh look. Agile's found yet another opportunity to advertise for nothing.

 

[topgazza]

..I would hate to say yes and then find when I get the written quote I disagree with some of the work descriptions.

A provisional written quote is the bare minimum I would expect...until formally accepting. How can I compare quotes if I have nothing formal in writing so I can compare eggs for eggs?

Clearly you dont understand just whats involved in plumbing and heating work. Why dont you want to accept a verbal quote. I suppose your answer is that you would not trust me. In that case I would certainly not trust you!

I dont make visits to free loaders who want a two hour discussion of their best system options and then get Mr Polski to fit it for them. I only visit someone who I genuinely expect to be getting us to do the work.

Similarly I dont make free visits to faulty boilers to find the fan has failed and then they say "thank you we will call you" only to go and get and fit a new fan themselves.


A little self-promoting has been deleted. Mod

I completely understand whats involved (I could also counter that you clearly don't understand good business practice or the legal ramifications of running a business...but I won't)...but I also completely understand that if something goes wrong...and it clearly does, a lot, from the many threads on the matter on this board the one thing that is consistent is that the OPs rarely have anything to come back at the plumber with if, and some do, just walk away. By the same token the plumber has nothing to point the customer to and say..."sorry we said we would do this ...not what you are saying now" it protects both sides. But in an ideal world (pun intended) I agree it shouldn't be required but why should the plumbing and heating industry be the only one where people are expected to spend thousands of pounds without any written agreement. Whats wrong with a simple email or a hand written note? I do agree that if "you" know the tradesman or he come recommended then it is less of a risk but I can't see why some people just refuse

But I accept that it probably is more reasonable for a customer not to request a detailed quote once he has offered the job to the tradesman. I also have no doubt you are a completely trustworthy person......and a little self promotion is OK with me...good on ya!

 

[Diyisfun]

If you (the fitter) dosnt give a written quote how do you know what you quoted.
Oh I know you wright it in your book (so why not use a duplicate book & give copy to customer).

Just a thought

 

[Softus]

...why should the plumbing and heating industry be the only one where people are expected to spend thousands of pounds without any written agreement.

There is no such industry-wide expectation.

Whats wrong with a simple email or a hand written note?

I think you haven't read the many posts on this topic in which people have said that they do provide written information, but only if either paid to do so or engaged to do the job.

I do agree that if "you" know the tradesman or he come recommended then it is less of a risk but I can't see why some people just refuse

Because we can. Because we have a right to refuse. Because we're offering a service that you have the right to decline to use.

But I accept that it probably is more reasonable for a customer not to request a detailed quote once he has offered the job to the tradesman.

I don't understand this one.

 

[billy bob]

I never give a written quote for a job, but I always provide a written estimate, this will include the componenets I intend to use with litreature and exact details of what work we will carry out, a quote is a fixed price, you never know what problems you may incur along the way.