why not soldered??

[steveacarmechanic]

Hi all
(I had often found myself "directed" to this site, and getting engrossed!!)
So, hey, I am a newbie, my question..
why are ring mains not solder jointed at their terminations??
..i have changed a few socket face plates over the years, and SOO often the wires are loose in the socket terminals, or fall out during removal from wall backplate!!
..this weekend i replaced a damaged socket at my home, the wires were loose in old one..quel surprise!
but, the wires were a 'mare to get into the new socket and the screw tightened!! ...rightly ..err or wrongly..? i soldered them, in to out ring main wires, and THEN popped into the new socket, and terminal tightened, soo much easier..
please your thoughts? and be gentle...
thanks all
steve

 

[mattylad]

well, usually soldering irons require electricity.

thats the stuff thats been turned off.

 

[flameport]

Solder will creep under the pressure of a screw terminal, and therefore become loose over time.

By adding solder, you have significantly increased the chances of those screws becoming loose.

 

[steveacarmechanic]

i did use a gas soldering iron...
..thanks flameport, so whats the answer...?
..dont you OFTEN find the wires loose in sockets??
..in a modern rcd type box would the loose wires cause trips, and hence investigations would be made?

 

[ericmark]

To solder to reinforce a good joint as with the time honoured western role joint is OK well really an A1 joint however to place two wires next to each other and join with only solder is wrong.

Solder has both for and against taking a simple wetted cable at the point where the solder stops any movement can result in cable failure where the same cable with a pin crimp would have no such problem.

However most cables will not have pin crimps attached and one major problem is inserting more than one cable into a screw connector can result in one of a bunch of cables not having the compression required. However reverse a single cable being held by a screw connector may be necked off.

So there is no one answer fits all. Given an option of solder or pin crimp then pin crimp wins however given an option solder or twisted wires solder wins.

 

[JohnW2]

..dont you OFTEN find the wires loose in sockets??

It's not that uncommon - but, as has been explained to you, it is likely to be more common if you solder the cables together (or merely 'tin' them) - since, being softerthan copper, solder is even more likely to 'creep'.

...in a modern rcd type box would the loose wires cause trips, and hence investigations would be made?

No, unless a wire became so loose that it came out of the terminal and touched something which it shouldn't. RCDs respond only to leaks to earth.

Kind Regards, John

 

[phatboy]

Terminals should be periodically checked for tightness (every 10 years at inspection?), but of course this usually doesn't happen!

 

[JohnW2]

Terminals should be periodically checked for tightness (every 10 years at inspection?), but of course this usually doesn't happen!

They should. However, not only doesn't it usually happen (at least, not for all terminals, even if a few are checked) but it's going to be of limited value if (as dictated by practicalities) it's only done, say, once every 10 years - particularly since I suspect that a lot of the loosening, particularly that due to conductor 'creep', occurs very early after tightening. It's a bit like screening people for a cancer once every 10 years - many people will contract the disease, and quite possibly die of it, before the next screening is due!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Adam_151]

If the socket has been second fixed correctly in the first place then the the terminals shouldn't become loose

I always connect the socket and push it back as I dress the cables into the box, then pull it forward slightly and tweak the terminals up again as the conductors will have moved in the terminals as they were formed into shape

Routine tightening of terminals can cause 'necking off' over time

 

[steveacarmechanic]

Thank you all..
merely fyi,but last weekends old socket (face plate) wires were bared ends,no brass pin crimp,not folded,not twisted together..and genuinely fell out during removal of face plate..
really is world's within worlds,even a "relatively" or so I thought,easy to answer question..
Really is a cracking informative site,with clearly knowledgeable folks on it..
...what will I do next time I change a face plate..hmmm..good question..

 

[Taylortwocities]

You are lucky to be able to get it off the wall. After 10 years, usually the householder, or his decorator, will have sealed the switch/socket on to the wall using caulk and/or layers of paint

 

[Gasguru]

Is there any reason why crimped 2.5mm twin entry ferrules could not be used.....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Long-Barr...mponents_Supplies_ET&var=&hash=item48565f073e

 

[Taylortwocities]

I think ericmark has already covered that area.

Solder has both for and against taking a simple wetted cable at the point where the solder stops any movement can result in cable failure where the same cable with a pin crimp would have no such problem.

 

[flameport]

Is there any reason why crimped 2.5mm twin entry ferrules could not be used.....

None at all.

However crimps won't resolve the problem of loose screw terminals - the pin would still fall out of the terminal, but the two wires would remain connected together.

The solution for loose terminals is for people to tighten them properly in the first place.
This means using a screwdriver which fits the terminal screws, and applying the correct amount of force..

 

[EFLImpudence]

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• EFLImpudence
• 26 Mar 2014
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