1. Visiting from the US? Why not try DIYnot.US instead? Click here to continue to DIYnot.US.
    Dismiss Notice

Window Materials in a Conservation Area

Discussion in 'Building Regulations and Planning Permission' started by phykell, 6 Sep 2021.

  1. phykell

    phykell

    Joined:
    7 Mar 2004
    Messages:
    222
    Thanks Received:
    4
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Hi,

    My house (built around 1750) is in a conservation area and currently has white UPVC windows. I'm in the process of renovating and extending it and have successfully applied for planning permission; sign off is subject to some conditions. I've satisfied all of the condition apart from the window material as the conservation officer is opposed to using UPVC in the extension even though the historic part of the property already does so (I guess they can't object to is as it's already there). Instead, they're proposing the use of aluminium forthe extension which, in my opinion, is just as "alien" as UPVC and this is also despite the fact that the UPVC I've chosen is a flush sash design which is supposed to replicate timber and my intention is to replace the original old white UPVC as well (which I presume they can't oppose). It seems to me that too much emphasis is on the material rather than the aesthetics - the aluminium is much more expensive, and though it's a flush sash, it's not possible to have a wood grain effect - the UPVC looks much more like wood.

    Any advice would be welcomed as we seem to have reached an impasse.
     
  2. Sponsored Links
  3. sxturbo

    sxturbo

    Joined:
    12 Jan 2014
    Messages:
    3,660
    Thanks Received:
    535
    Location:
    Essex
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Planning decisions should not ‘stifle innovation, originality or initiative’ (NPPF para 60), and planners are required to be objective in their deliberations. Many conservation officers are not themselves from a design background and benefit from seeking the views of design professionals. In some local authorities they have access to a panel of architects and designers, and this can prove beneficial particularly on larger or more challenging schemes.

    https://www.buildingconservation.co...sted-buildings/extending-listed-buildings.htm

    Really you need to sit down with the conservation officer and try and look for alternatives both are happy with, you need him on side.

    personally upvc windows are chunky and the wood "effect" is clearly not wood, so in this respect i can see the point in the conservation officers request.

    Aluminium windows offer a much slimmer frame and cannot be made to pretend to be something they are not, badly.
     
  4. mrrusty

    mrrusty

    Joined:
    1 May 2018
    Messages:
    692
    Thanks Received:
    142
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    If you want it to look like wood, why not use wood? Windows made in e.g. Accoya will last a very long time, and as accoya is very stable a complementary modern paint finish is also very durable.
     
  5. phykell

    phykell

    Joined:
    7 Mar 2004
    Messages:
    222
    Thanks Received:
    4
    Country:
    United Kingdom
  6. phykell

    phykell

    Joined:
    7 Mar 2004
    Messages:
    222
    Thanks Received:
    4
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Accoya sounds interesting - I haven't heard of it before, but as good as the material sounds, maintenance would surely be an issue as even the best paint requires re-applying every year in the UK's wet, windy, cold climate.
     
  7. mrrusty

    mrrusty

    Joined:
    1 May 2018
    Messages:
    692
    Thanks Received:
    142
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    They reckon that high performance paint should last up to 10 years on Accoya - it is totally stable, and does not absorb moisture so doesn't expand and contract like "normal" wood - which is the cause of much paint failure. I made some Accoya sash windows myself and home-sprayed them using Teknos Aquatop. 3 years on there is zero sign yet of paint degradation.

    https://www.teknos.com/globalassets...hures/tricoya_accoya_teknos_lr_2018-03-09.pdf
     
  8. sxturbo

    sxturbo

    Joined:
    12 Jan 2014
    Messages:
    3,660
    Thanks Received:
    535
    Location:
    Essex
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    The conservation officer might have had something like this company in mind

    https://theheritagewindowcompany.co.uk/products/sash-windows

    I may be wrong they do various types, but are specifically for heritage properties.

    I agree with you the windows in your link appear no better than uPVC option and would be imo silly of them to force you down that road.
     
  9. ^woody^

    ^woody^

    Joined:
    3 Sep 2006
    Messages:
    33,583
    Thanks Received:
    4,563
    Location:
    West Mids
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    What is the issue - the material, potential frame profiles?
     
  10. Sponsored Links
  11. phykell

    phykell

    Joined:
    7 Mar 2004
    Messages:
    222
    Thanks Received:
    4
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I can't get any further explanation other than it's the *material* they object to - it just makes no sense to me. I've stressed that the UPVC systems I'm considering are all the flush sash ones so aluminium offers no aesthetic advantage in terms of frame profile, etc.
     
  12. phykell

    phykell

    Joined:
    7 Mar 2004
    Messages:
    222
    Thanks Received:
    4
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    My thoughts exactly - the Residence R9 and Resurgence UPVC systems look just like timber and it seems that many other councils (and/or their conservation officers) across the UK seem to agree with them.

    The windows would originally have been just side opening sashes rather than sliding ones.
     
  13. phykell

    phykell

    Joined:
    7 Mar 2004
    Messages:
    222
    Thanks Received:
    4
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    It looks like the issue has been resolved - it's not ideal but at least we can move forwards now. The historic part of the building will have black, grain-effect UPVC and the extensions will have matt black aluminium windows and bifolds.

    My advice, if you're ever in the position of buying a house in a so-called "conservation area", is not to bother - it's just not worth the hassle if you're intending to extend and/or improve it. Life's just too short.
     
  14. mrrusty

    mrrusty

    Joined:
    1 May 2018
    Messages:
    692
    Thanks Received:
    142
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I hope none of these windows are sun facing. Black and uPVC is a bad combination because the black upvc gets very hot. Coefficient of thermal expansion uPVC is ~0.07mm/degreeC/m so a 1m wide window between say -5 winter and +35 degrees summer will expand contract 0.07 x 40 x 1.0 = 2.8mm
     
  15. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    24,673
    Thanks Received:
    1,759
    Location:
    S. Uplands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    R9 "timber alternative" windows have an identical sightline to traditional timber windows and if you choose butt jointed that avoids the upvc mitred look.

    and yes, they are accepted by many councils for conservation area.
     
  16. sxturbo

    sxturbo

    Joined:
    12 Jan 2014
    Messages:
    3,660
    Thanks Received:
    535
    Location:
    Essex
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I used to, and the council were beyond useless, they didn't know and could not advise on what would and wouldn't be acceptable, though anything you did do they would send a snotty letter asking you to put it back, people found it best to just ignore the letters as they don't take further action.

    What they have now ended up with is a situation where half the houses just don't get looked after and the village is looking a sorry state for itself. And actually everyone is doing there own thing anyway and so it now all looks a bit of a mess.

    It's also not helped that the area is not "affluent" and those that live In the conserved houses don't have the money for the high cost materials that we do know is allowed.

    The conservation has become pointless.

    I wanted to replace 4 crittal windows with aluminium double glazed alternative, I was quoted 5k and 2 of the windows were just a single 450x600 pane of glass. Crittal wanted 7k for their steel double glazed units. It became unviable. The front door was a similar situation was only allowed 2 types of door and they weren't available so had to be bespoke made from hard wood, 7k to supply and fit.

    I'd never buy a conserved house again.
     
Loading...

Share This Page