Wiring a 5A lighting socket to a wall switch

[KevinPeters]

Hi all
This is the current situation:
Refurbishing the lounge at the moment - walls are bare and the ceiling has been pulled down. In the ceiling there is a standard ceiling rose/pendant - loop in, loop out and switch. The switch is a single wall switch by the door. All hunky dory.

What I would like:
I would like a 5a lamp socket in the corner of the room in addition to the current pendant. The socket should also be independently switchable (replacing the old 1-gang switch with a 2-gang switch).

The Question:
I am unclear how one would wire this in, whilst still meeting regs. If a down-light style junction box is used in the ceiling it wont meet it because it won't be inspectable. I can't use a maintenance-free junction box (like a Hager J804) because there is no provision for the switch. There is no room for a junction box behind the socket, so obviously this wouldn't work.

How should it be wired?

I have an electrician coming round to quote for this and other work, but would like to know what is the 'right' way to do this before he arrives.
Thanks
Kevin

 

[RF Lighting]

Easiest way is to rewire the switch drop with 3 core and earth. This provides a permanent live and neutral to the switch and a switched live back to the light.

The socket can then be wired from the switch position.

There are other ways which may be more appropriately suited to your site, but it's hard to say without seeing it.

 

[wingcoax]

The "correct" way would be to take a new switch cable from the existing ceiling rose to the new two gang switch and link to the 5a socket. BUT any self respecting Qualified electrician should know the CORRECT way

 

[sparkwright]

From what you have said there is no neutral at the switch.

One solution is to replace the 2 core and earth switch wire for a 3 core and earth. With the extra core you can gain a neutral from the ceiling rose. The switch wire may be in a tube or capping, so pulling a new cable in may be easy.

Then run a 2 core and earth cable from the switch to the 5 amp socket.

At the switch you will have two neutrals joined together in a connector block. A permanent live feeding one switch, with a link to the other switch. A switched live for the main light. A switched live for the 5 amp socket.

There are many other ways of doing it, so pictures may help to decide a better way.

 

[sparkwright]

Great minds, rf.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

It would be difficult to give an absolute answer without knowing the layout of your room in relationship to where the current accessories are and the planned route to the socket(5A).

What I would do, to make things simple would take a live, neutral and CPC (t&e) from the central light fitting, to the two gang switch. Terminate live across switch and then run your switched live, continuous neutral and CPC to a 5A socket outlet.

 

[KevinPeters]

Thanks everyone for advice, which is reassuringly consistent!

I just about understand what you are saying - enough to appear knowledgeable when he comes round.

wingcoax: You are absolutely correct, but if I don't know what to look for, how would I know he is self-respecting? One would hope given that he is NIC Domestic Installer approved, but I like to be sure.

Thanks again
Kevin

 

[Taylortwocities]

One would hope given that he is NIC Domestic Installer approved, but I like to be sure.

Oh ha ha ha ha.

That is no recommendation of capability at all.

When Part P (Electriical Safety) was added to the Building Regulations, some of the organisations (NICEIC included) created quick fix "become a domestic installer" qualifications that quickly became known as "5 day wonder schemes" where a student would be taken from complete novice to certificated "Domestic Installer" within a very short amount of time.

This has meant that there are an army of underqualified folk out there who have the Domestic Installer title without much background on what its really all about.

Unfortunately, this means that being on the register of "competent" electricians is no guarantee of competence.
Your best bet will be to get recommendations from family or friends.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I can't use a maintenance-free junction box (like a Hager J804) because there is no provision for the switch. There is no room for a junction box behind the socket, so obviously this wouldn't work.

How should it be wired?

Without a junction box - you don't need one.

 

[KevinPeters]

TTC, thanks for the heads up. Electrical work in the home can be quite a minefield (regardless of who it is done by)!

My theory is that if I understand enough and I could do it myself then I have enough knowledge to check on the work of an electrician.

Thanks again
Kevin

 

[Risteard]

Don't see the need for 3-core. Just take the neutral from the luminaire and the switched line from the switch, and a cpc from one or the other. It's not rocket science and certainly doesn't require junction boxes.

But surely the Electrician coming in will know what to do, so why the question on an internet forum?

 

[KevinPeters]

Thanks Risteard. As I said previously I like to understand what someone is going to do to my house and also I am a curious person. I like to understand how things work... Is that so strange? Are you actually asking if I am going to perform the work myself? The answer is no (although I have performed basic, allowed work myself previously).

Also, pulling down the ceiling has revealed some non-compliant wiring in the next room. Without a basic understanding of the standards and regs, this may have gone unnoticed.

Forget the junction boxes, that was just my inexperienced mind thinking it over.

 

[wingcoax]

As i said in previous post, run twin and cpc from light to switch position and link to new 3a socket with loop at switch box. Two straight runs. Bearing in mind safe zones.

 

[KevinPeters]

Case and point.

Had a guy come round today who is NIC registered to do a quote. I asked him how he would do the light-switch and he suggested a junction box in the ceiling. I suggested the 3 core to to switch as a better alternative which he agreed. It turns out that he is a bathroom fitter but NIC registered so that he doesnt have to get someone in to do the electric work. He was fully open that he wasn't an electrician by trade.

Probably not the guy for me.

 

[Taylortwocities]

In that case he has a "DEFINED SCOPE" ticket from NICEIC.

This means that his registration with NICEIC only allows him to do work in association with plumbing work that he is undertaking (eg adding a fused spur for a new boiler). I would not use him. Anyone who suggests hiding a junction box in a ceiling doesn't know the regs -its done, but not allowed.

Here we get into tricky territory. The work you describe is not notifiable and anybody (even you) could do it. You don't need a registered electrician. You could just use a general jobbing handyman.



You now know how to do the job, why don't you do it yourself? That's the point of this forum..