Wiring a conservatory-changing consumer unit location help

[kavehh]

Hi everyone,
This is my first tread in electrics forum and I would like to thank you for your help in advance.
I am doing my conservatory and patio electric with help of my dad. It is 4m x4m area(conservatory)
I have attached a photo of the lights and socket plan.
Would be grateful if you guys could review my shopping list and let me know if I need anything else or have to change to a different part.

My metre ,old fuse box and main feed is located in storage room and my new fuse box will be place in kitchen(8 metre) distance between too. The cable from meter to old fuse box is 6mm(length 0.5m).

My question is:
1- would be ok to extend it to 8m length to new fuse box using same 6mm? If so What amp junction box I must use? Would 50A be enough(out of curiosity)? (3 bedroom flat with gas heating system) ( I am not sure what AMP is coming from main). Qualified electrician going to install the main. We are just extending the wires from old fuse box to new fuse box. Don’t want to mess with main!!

My shopping list

I am using 32A for Patio Heater(socket outside)
I am using 5amp for lights (outdoor and indoor)(conservatory different to rest of house)
I am using 13amp for ring wall sockets(conservatory different to rest of house)
I am using 2.5mm Twin&E for sockets
I am using 1.5mm Twin&E for lights
I am using outdoor cables 1.5mm for patio lights
I am using 6mm cable for outdoor double switch which is going to be used for patio heater.
One consumer unit
blackplates etc are considered.

2- Can I get a extension from a 6mm cable that I wired for patio heater to outside for a florescent light and a freezer in my shedby using a junctionbox? Or I have to wire them separately to fuse box?

3- Can I include the outside socket with inside sockets(my conservatory) as part of the ring?(outside socket for light usage)

4- Would 2-Way Lever Connector 222 be suitable for 6mm cable(32A) cooker that is going to be extended to new fuse box? I never used connectors in this country, not sure if they all can get up to 6mm cable.


Thank you for taking your time to answer my questions.

Untitled

• kavehh
• 26 Mar 2014
• 1

 

[GaryGarden]

If the fuse box is the main box it will not be 6mm cable.

Not being rude but all this work needs to be carried out by a competent electrician from your post you don't appear to be such a person. These are new circuits you can not just hook up some wires, cable sizing, route, type, load, diversity, etc,etc MUST be taken into account. This work must also be notified to building control and must be inspected and tested.

Find a local electrician who is willing for you to do some of the chasing etc if you want to save some money.

 

[ericmark]

Oh if only it was that simple. Yes many do just fit stuff and pray to the Lord and it works. But design is two fold one is to remember what one has done before and what readings were the result which is common with a standard design the other is to work it all out from scratch but either way start point is the readings.

For you start point is to down load an electrical installation certificate from IET web site and look at what is required.

Question one is can I extend and start point is listed top of schedule of test results supply type, Ze at origin, PFC although last two are really the same reading using different units.

In the old days of the fuse if the loop impedance was slightly high say 1.2 instead of 1.15 it meant it would take a few milliseconds longer than regulations ask for. However when we moved to using MCB's to be slightly high 1.50 instead of 1.44 means instead of 0.01 seconds it takes 15 seconds as it moves from magnetic to thermal protection so today measuring the loop impedance is a must.

So number one on your shopping list is a loop impedance meter. There are some cheap testers at around £50 simple plug in and light says pass or fail however you really want the answer before you wire not after you have finished so OK to test existing but not much good to test before starting.

Once the electrician has installed his bit he will issue an installation certificate on this will be the loop readings using this and knowing the resistance of cable you can calculate how much extra cable can be added.

But from information given only answer is a guess need those reading before one can say if ring or radial and extend or not.

For a 32A supply to a patio heater it will need commercial type sockets and that sort of load could well tip the balance for incoming supply. Clearly your not short of cash or would not be using a 32A patio heater so I would suggest you get the electrician to do the lot.

 

[Taylortwocities]

kavehh.
I'll echo Gary's post and add a bit more, to help you.

All electrical work comes under the umbrella of Building Regulations Part P (Electrical Safety). So everything you do must conform the the relavent wiring regulations (usually this is BS7671). So you would need to be fully conversant with the requirements of BS7671, to carry out the design of the circuits and the installthem in a compliant manner.

Much of what you plan to do (new circuits, new consumer unit etc) is NOTIFIABLE work. This means that (if you do it yourself) you first have to apply to the local authority, and they will inspect the work that you have done at various stages. They also will expect you to test the installation and certify that it complies with BS7671. You'll need some calibrated & expensive test equipment to do this, and of course the knowledge of how to carry out the tests.

With respect, the questions that you have asked are so elementary and basic it is obvious that you wouldnt be able to demonstrate any level of competence to building control. And asking a 40 point questionairre on a DIY forum is not going increase your knowledge.

Read this excerpt from the WIKI and you'll undersatand more.
//www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:part_p:DIY-Electrical-Work-and-the-Law

So you can't do it yourself, so what do you do?
A registered electrician is able to do the work for you and will certify and notify the work to the local authority. To keep the cost down, he/she may also let you install the wiring that they specify, in the places that you want.
You'll find a list here www.competentperson.co.uk

 

[kavehh]

Thank you all for input. I understand it should be carried out by qualified person.

I was going to have it inspected by electrician at the end of the work(as the walls are not yet plastered) and obviously let him to amend them as it its necessary. All we really want to do is to extend the cables. My dad been into construction business for last 30 years and he was involved with its operations but not here so standards are very different indeed.

To be honest, installing a ring circuit in a conservatory is fairy easy job and I understand your concern as I have mentioned changing/extending the CU , heavy load patio heater etc. I am aware every bit should be calculated (volt drop, effect on the earth loop etc)

So right now, there are 2 options that are left for me and it will be entirely depend on to contributors. I will not connect them to main unless it is accepted by electrician. All I am trying to do is to learn a bit which I love.

1- I dont mind buying tools so I can buy the necessary tools and with your help , I can find out what cable I need to run from old CU to new CU(8 metre away).

2- I ask the electrician to come and give me the plan and shopping list for what cable , fuse amp, etc I need for the job so I can wire the job and he can inspect and connect the cables which I will be marking them to new CU.

I dont mind giving you the full details of the place using the tools as long as you dont mind spending a bit of your time by telling me what I should do and measure which is much appreciated. I am very knowledgeable in classic cars which is one of the thing I do for living.

I will have a look at the standards.

Thank you all

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Hi everyone,

Hello and welcome kavehh

This is my first tread in electrics forum and I would like to thank you for your help in advance.

Be ready for a rough ride then!

I am doing my conservatory and patio electric with help of my dad.

Which one of you has any electrical knowledge and is aware of the legal implications with regards to installing domestic electrics and does anyone of you have knowledge of the electrical requirement and the relevant building regulations?

It is 4m x4m area(conservatory)

Is this a new build or was it existing?

My metre ,old fuse box and main feed is located in storage room and my new fuse box will be place in kitchen(8 metre) distance between too. The cable from meter to old fuse box is 6mm(length 0.5m).

Is the existing fuse board staying and the new one just for the new circuits?

My question is:
1- would be ok to extend it to 8m length to new fuse box using same 6mm? If so What amp junction box I must use? Would 50A be enough(out of curiosity)? (3 bedroom flat with gas heating system) ( I am not sure what AMP is coming from main). Qualified electrician going to install the main. We are just extending the wires from old fuse box to new fuse box. Don’t want to mess with main!!

Same 6mm as what? Just extending what exactly?
If you have a qualified electrician coming I would talk to them, I am not sure what you propose to do?

My shopping list

I am using 32A for Patio Heater(socket outside) Is this a commando type socket
I am using 5amp for lights (outdoor and indoor)(conservatory different to rest of house) I would suggest having outdoor and indoor on different circuits and 6A would be common to new circuits
I am using 13amp for ring wall sockets(conservatory different to rest of house)Rings are standardly 32A
I am using 2.5mm Twin&E for sockets How did you calculate the cable size with regards to load, method installation and protective device?
I am using 1.5mm Twin&E for lights As above
I am using outdoor cables 1.5mm for patio lights As above
I am using 6mm cable for outdoor double switch which is going to be used for patio heater.
One consumer unit
blackplates etc are considered.

2- Can I get a extension from a 6mm cable that I wired for patio heater to outside for a florescent light and a freezer in my shedby using a junctionbox? Or I have to wire them separately to fuse box? We need details on the heater, I think you are making this a bit of hash up

3- Can I include the outside socket with inside sockets(my conservatory) as part of the ring?(outside socket for light usage) You could install an outside socket to the internal socket circuit but I would have a DP isolator in place

4- Would 2-Way Lever Connector 222 be suitable for 6mm cable(32A) cooker that is going to be extended to new fuse box? I never used connectors in this country, not sure if they all can get up to 6mm cable.
Is that a Wago connector, I don't think they are suitably sized or rated for 6mm cable and why would you need such a thing?

 

[Taylortwocities]

I was going to have it inspected by electrician at the end of the work(as the walls are not yet plastered) and obviously let him to amend them as it its necessary.

It doesnt work like that.
The elctrician will certify that he has DESIGNED, INSTALLED and TESTED the installation.
Are you expecting him to LIE on the certificate??

Re Wago222 connectors.
Solid - [mm²] 1.0 - 2.5 mm²
Stranded - [mm²] 1.0 - 4.0 mm²
So, another no.

 

[securespark]

Is this a commando type socket

In my near 30-year career in the electrical industry, I never knew sockets wore underwear....or not, for that matter!