wiring a type 6013 relay switch to a float switch

[Ron6a]

Hi. I have a water harvesting system that needs a new float switch. There is a relay switch (see photo), as part of the old system installed in 2003. I have bought a new float switch for the tank in the loft, Float Switch 25 VA SPST Horizontal Ballcock Type PPS WRAS Cynergy3 RSF46Y100RG.
I thought that both were rated as mains 240v. When I tested the new switch, the solenoid in the relay switch buzzed rapidly and there was a bright green light (which might have been sparking from the contacts). Nothing is damaged as I only had it on for a very short time. I am thinking that something may not be mains rated although a neon electrical screwdriver lights up on the live wire from the circuit in the loft. The relay switch is in the garage.
Hope this makes sense and maybe someone can guide me further?
Thanks

 

[flameport]

Neon screwdrivers are not suitable for any purpose.
Assuming things are a certain voltage is a sure way to failure.
Any visible arc in a relay or other item will have caused damage, most likely beyond repair.

The solution is to obtain some proper test equipment, actually find out how this system is designed, wired and installed, and then replace whatever part(s) are not working.

 

[Ron6a]

Thanks. I was thinking that the rating on the relay read 250v AC so it was mains.The float switch was bought as a 240v mains feed. I have added a diagram of the circuit for the relay, which might help.

 

[bernardgreen]

How many float switch are there in the tank ?

EDIT just seen the diagram.

Assuming the pump is filling the tank.......

The high level switch should be normally closed until the water level reaches it when it opens.

That is not a good way to create a latching circuit. When the relay energises and contact RL2 is moving across from NC to NO (*) the supply to the coil is interrupted. The relay is then de-energises. This is how a buzzer works.

The small change to the circuit as below means the relay will be energised until the water level is above the minimum level and stay energised until the High Level switch goes open circuit and removes the supply to the relay

 

[Ron6a]

That looks interesting. Would this then not need the 'high level' grey wire?

 

[SUNRAY]

How many float switch are there in the tank ?

EDIT just seen the diagram.

Assuming the pump is filling the tank.......

The high level switch should be normally closed until the water level reaches it when it opens.

That is not a good way to create a latching circuit. When the relay energises and contact RL2 is moving across from NC to NO (*) the supply to the coil is interrupted. The relay is then de-energises. This is how a buzzer works.

The small change to the circuit as below means the relay will be energised until the water level is above the minimum level and stay energised until the High Level switch goes open circuit and removes the supply to the relay

As I see your arrangement, the tank level is allowed to drain to a low level then the pump starts and fills it to a high level. This is not a system I have encountered but I can understand it to avoid constant stop start actions.

The harvesting systems I've worked on use something like this arrangement:

IE the pump keeps the tank topped up to a regular level (within a fairly small range governed by the hysteresis of the low limit switch) and the high level switch is there as an overflow protection. There is often another float switch in the water source between terminals 4&5.

Apologies if I have misunderstood the correct action.

 

[ericmark]

Since relay clearly marked 230 volt and unlikely the float is not 230 volt data sheet seems to say all 230 volt, I would be looking at only thing left, the pump. There are so many types hard to advise how to test, however you show one float switch and diagram shows two, reed switches do have a limited life so it would seem good idea to have two switches one on and other off.

 

[bernardgreen]

Using a single switch to control the pump is not good practice. can result in an un-stable situation.

If there is any "wave" action in the surface of the water then the switch will open and close as the wave rises and fall switch. The pump will be repeatedly switched ON and OFF . Worst case could be the surge of water as the pump starts creates a "wave" that causes the switch to switch OFF. Pump stops, wave collapses, switch turns ON. Pumps starts and another wave is created

 

[Ron6a]

Hmm. lots to think about. Maybe I will have a look at the old float and see if it can be repaired. Looks weird and wobbly but it did work.

 

[jamesmcbride]

Is the "250v ~ AC MAX" *rating* not the contact rating, rather than the coil voltage?

Could you get a clearer picture of the model number at the bottom I can't quite work out if it says 230v or 24v?

Thanks

 

[Ron6a]

 

[bernardgreen]

The 60.13 type of relay can switch 10 Amps 6013 is a generic type name for relays from several manufacturers

For the Finder Relay equivalent click Here

60 Series Relay
Contact rating: 10A @ 250Vac
Test button and mechanical indicator
Coil To Contact rating of 2000 V
Contact Material: AgNi

There are many different coil voltages from 230 AC ( 60.13.8.230.0040 ) to 12 volt DC

 

[Ron6a]

OK. I bought a new relay switch, checked switches on the float, plugged the new relay in and switched on. Lights showed ok on the relay housing box, situated in the garage. Went up into the loft and moved the ball float. BANG! Spark from one of the float switches ans also blew the relay.
At this point I feel I tried my best but must give in.

The problem is who do I contact to fix it? Plumber, electrician, both! A specialist water harvesting company would probably not want to know.

Help please!
Ron

 

[bernardgreen]

It is an electrical problem so an electrician with knowledge of basic relay control circuitry is needed.