Woodwork Outbuilding under Permitted Development

[Shlumaan]

Hi there, I'm an avid woodworker and looking to build myself a wooden workshop with an attempt to soundproof the building properly in my back garden. To simplify things I will make it 15sqm floor space and 2.5m from the ground to the top of the roof. The location will very close to the boundary with two neighbours. The two attached pictures show the concrete area the outbuilding will be positioned and vicinity to both neighbours' fences.

As I don't know my neighbours yet (just moved in) I'm really worried about upsetting anyone with an eyesore structure and noise. They may well be nice people but I'm worried that once I'd get started complaints will follow. I'm also aware that woodwork can be loud at times, especially when opening windows for ventilation during summer season. That said, it's not a job for me, just a hobby so takes up only a small portion of my week.

I wonder if the attitude should be, so long as I'm under permitted development to forget about what my neighbours might have to say about it and get on with it? And yet why am I so bothered??

Should I be looking to spend money on prior lawful development certificate and building regs visit? Should I write a letter to neighbours inviting them to voice any issues beforehand?

Any thoughts would really be helpful to build up my confidence before I take the plunge.

Shlomi

 

[Notch7]

Just go ahead and build it

I dont know what wood working power tools you want to use but they can be noisy -so just be considerate, if your neighbours are outside on a summers day dont start up the lunchbox thicknesser and extractor

if it was me I would do STS construction board around the rear two sides that face the fence and featheredge boarding on the garden sides

you could use rockwall insulation as I think its got better sound insulation

you need to use 50 x 25mm vertical battens externally over the studwork and then the cladding -to create a cavity, that makes it very water and weathertight

 

[Shlumaan]

Thanks for the reply. I've got a thicknesser in my toolbox and it's so loud that it puts me off from using it. I'd definitely be looking at proper sound insulation (rock wool, special sound proof drywalls etc), and definitely no windows on neighbours side. But my understanding is that a wooden structure can't be as effective as concrete building. When you say to create a cavity is it part of your suggestion for soundproofing or just weather?

 

[big-all]

general comments

no insulation will stop the noise it will slightly reduce it
i have this exact setup as in fence to fence 2.7m tall[pre 2.5 regs] 3x3.6m 75mm insulation
potter about do not make loud noises neibours in garden most big assembly and machining is in the garden
comunicate and find what most annoys them and avoid when they are in
when you first contact them make some interesting simple coasters/pot stands /candle holders /chopping board just whatever from offcuts /recycled material as a sign off freindship offer them one or a set to get them on side
my shed /workshop i built in 2005

 

[^woody^]

Design it under PD and you will have no issues. As long as this is DIY and not hours of constant machining you'll be OK in a normal timber shed.

Once you invite comment, you raise [unjustified] concern and then you spend all your time pandering to what tends to be nit-picking.

Mass is best for sound attenuation, so dense blocks for walls. However, that's on paper as there are so many other variables and things to consider - the roof, the door, the windows, and all the necessary detailing plus the key issue of internal linings to trap airborne sound.

Unless you are able to detail, design and construct this to defined calculations and standards, then you won't achieve much difference whether you build it in block or a well made timber frame.

 

[mrrusty]

Keep the thicknessing to weekdays and there should be no problem at all. Sunday morning - maybe not - I don't!

 

[Notch7]

But my understanding is that a wooden structure can't be as effective as concrete building. When you say to create a cavity is it part of your suggestion for soundproofing or just weather

a wooden structure can be as effective in most ways as a concrete building - sound deadening not so much. You can’t beat the mass of hi density concrete blocks for acoustic qualities.

the cavity is vital for weather proofing - you build stud walls, clad with say tyvek housewrap, then put on 50 x 25 battens, then clad with timber - any water getting through the timber cladding runs down and out. Also the cavity creates air circulation so the cladding can dry - significantly extending its lifespan

 

[Shlumaan]

Thanks Notch7, great information! From soundproofing perspective, would it not be better to lay some waterproof drywall as an exterior finish straight over the tyvek? Or perhaps two layers of drywall? Would that not address both weather and sound proofing?

 

[Shlumaan]

Thanks Notch7, great information! From soundproofing perspective, would it not be better to lay some waterproof drywall as an exterior finish straight over the tyvek? Or perhaps two layers of drywall? Would that not address both weather and sound

Design it under PD and you will have no issues. As long as this is DIY and not hours of constant machining you'll be OK in a normal timber shed.

Once you invite comment, you raise [unjustified] concern and then you spend all your time pandering to what tends to be nit-picking.

Mass is best for sound attenuation, so dense blocks for walls. However, that's on paper as there are so many other variables and things to consider - the roof, the door, the windows, and all the necessary detailing plus the key issue of internal linings to trap airborne sound.

Unless you are able to detail, design and construct this to defined calculations and standards, then you won't achieve much difference whether you build it in block or a well made timber frame.

I get the bit about talking to neighbours beforehand. But to address your last paragraph, can I conversely conclude that with detailed calculations, design and standard I could achieve a pretty good sound insulation with timber built? I would appreciate your take on what optimal sound insulation for roof and walls would be... Thank you

 

[Vicario]

Leave enough space to be able to walk around it for maintenance. I made that mistake with a greenhouse right up against a fence which is now impossible to clean behind.

 

[^woody^]

can I conversely conclude that with detailed calculations, design and standard I could achieve a pretty good sound insulation with timber built?

Not really.

Primarily, you will need a specialist in construction sound engineering, or a really clued up designer to design the building. That's potentially cost prohibitive, or site prohibitive for the space you have available. Way overboard for a shed to do DIY in.

Alternatively, you get a good designer to design "as good as practicable" - carefully selecting this or that material, and worrying about joints and details and suchlike. And yet, you and the neighbours won't notice any discernable difference in sound levels between a well built masonry or timber building.

Basically all things being equal, you could achieve a good level of sound insulation with timber or masonry, and you won't know the difference. On that basis, your priorities would be things like, build cost, ongoing maintenance cost, what does it look like, where do the machines go, where do the clamps hang, and have I got enough bench space or suchlike.

 

[big-all]

further to woodys good comments
the carp you hang on the walls like clamps cabinets and other object will deflect and absorb far more than you think all the insulation in the world wont do much if you have an inner sounding board pysically transmitting internal vibration via timber or brick to an external sounding board
certain tools will annoy different people in different ways

 

[Diver Fred]

Just go ahead and build it. Agree you need a walk space between it and the fence/boundary to maintain it and the fence. Build it to PD standards, that way you will shut any adverse comments down.

I do think it best to not tell your neighbours and certainly not what you intend to do In it.

In the road where lived we had saw a neighbour tell people what he was intending to do, bent over backwards to keep the neighbours happy and ended up with something not suiting his needs.

 

[Shlumaan]

I hear you guys. Sounds like the voice of experience. I don't know about hiring a sound designer. I've got a few sound engineer for friends but it seems like all the information is out there, eg STS boards, acousitc drywalls, rockwool, green glue, house wrap material, risilient channels etc. I'm reading about the four aspects of perfect sound insulation but at the end of the day it is down to what I can afford which will boil down to a more basic construction and not every soundproofing product under the sun. There's also a consideration of how thick those walls and roof can be as every layer will take away from floor space and head height. All things being considered, accepting some degree of noise spillage without breaking any laws will be an acceptable outcome. Complaining neighbours may also be a 'noisy' side-effect in the process but for that I've got a good set of ear defenders

 

[^woody^]

I'd build it right up to the fence and choose maintenance free materials - even if they are different to the parts that will be visible. The closeness of a wall to three fence also protects the panels from weathering.