worcester greenstar 30 CDI regular boiler

[Symptoms]

workhard - the existing system in the house I moved to a year & a half ago was the same as yours: vent into c/w tank, vent into c/h header tank, hot water cylinder ... but connected to an oil fired jobby, oh, and no controls to speak of. The installers obviously added zone valves (3 of them), converted the system into 'semi-pressurised' by adding a valve to the end of the c/h expansion pipe in the attic plus an expansion vessel plus a by-pass valve.

Before they did all this they flushed out, inspected all the pipework (easy access as the house was empty so floorboards could be lifted) and pressure tested it. It'll be clear to most of the guys here that this aspect of the install should be taken as read by any decent installer but workhard I'd advise talking about these 'preliminaries' with your guy in advance.

 

[workhard]

Thank you for giving me so much details. Is there an advantage to change it into "semi-pressurized" system? The old system in my house was not perfect. There was no temperature/time control of the hot water. Did your installer use the Powerflush? I have flushed the central heating several times. How much did you pay for all these works+ installation of the boiler?

workhard - the existing system in the house I moved to a year & a half ago was the same as yours: vent into c/w tank, vent into c/h header tank, hot water cylinder ... but connected to an oil fired jobby, oh, and no controls to speak of. The installers obviously added zone valves (3 of them), converted the system into 'semi-pressurised' by adding a valve to the end of the c/h expansion pipe in the attic plus an expansion vessel plus a by-pass valve.

Before they did all this they flushed out, inspected all the pipework (easy access as the house was empty so floorboards could be lifted) and pressure tested it. It'll be clear to most of the guys here that this aspect of the install should be taken as read by any decent installer but workhard I'd advise talking about these 'preliminaries' with your guy in advance.

 

[Symptoms]

workhard - I've just dug-out the invoice & specification for my installation: £3800 (inc vat).

However, on reading it I notice that my the boiler is the Greenstar FS42CDI ... same as yours but with bigger 'guts'.

£3800 included, in addition to supply of new boiler & stuff outlined in earlier posting:
removing asbestos flue (big jobby full height the roof), bagging, disposal at licensed site
removing a huge steel oil tank (this thing was 8' long, 5' high, 5' front to back!)
supply & fit 17 TRVs
supply & fit time clock, cylinder stat, room stat and associated cable - lecky was done by a electrician (there was no existing cable for these as the oil jobby was basically 'uncontrolled')
run gas supply pipe (30') from meter to utility room for boiler
run gas supply pipe (30') from meter to kitchen for AGA 6x4 range cooker
run gas supply pipes to lounge and dinning room and terminate these below floor level for later (maybe???) gas effect fires ... currently burning coal - yum!
I think I got a pretty decent deal considering the amount of work on the spec. I got 3 other quotes ... all in the same ballpark.

Why semi-pressurised? I was told that it increases efficiency of system.

Yep, they power-flushed the old before hooking up the new.

Oh, and I got back £400 from Phoenix Gas (the local gas supply Company) for the new boiler. They also ran the supply from the road, fitted meter for nothing.

 

[workhard]

Hi guys, I have a WAI guy visited my house and raise some issues.
1, He said I should use the greenstar 30 cdi SYSTEM. I think I should use the greestar 30 cdi REGULAR because I have the F&E cistern. According to the worcester web, my house is falling into the REGULAR category. Who is right?
2, He said I should change the main supply from the water meter to the internal stopcock from lead pipe to plastic because the new boiler will need water without the sludges. I wonder why. The F&E feed the boiler, right? The main is not directly feed the boiler, right?

Welcome your comments.

 

[Agile]

I always prefer a heat only boiler because the other parts are cheaper that way and more suitable for DIY repairs. Its usually a cheaper option for the customer.

Obviously you have too much money but I would also repeat that the profile is a very reliable boiler and reasonably efficient. No sensible person would replace one when its still working fine.

You can spend money though but on energy saving things like loft, cavity wall insulation or draught proofing.

Worcester is not the only boiler maker. Viessmann and Intergas also give a five year warrantee as well. Many would say that they are likely to be more reliable too.

Someone from this forum went to give a quote for a new boiler to someone local. He did not accept the quote but instead took a much higher one from British Gas.

The same installer then called to do the installation as a subcontractor to British Gas!

Tony

 

[workhard]

I agree with you. I am looking for a conventional boiler, German made. When I got the quote from Profile to replace the old one, it was £3500 boiler only ( not including the installation, other necessary parts, etc.). The Worcester 30 cdi regular is about £850 which will do the same job better. I think I am choosing a cheaper option. If my old profile is still working fine, I would not replace it. It has been given trouble every year in the winter for the last 4 years, particularly in Christmas time. Thank you.

I always prefer a heat only boiler because the other parts are cheaper that way and more suitable for DIY repairs. Its usually a cheaper option for the customer.

Obviously you have too much money but I would also repeat that the profile is a very reliable boiler and reasonably efficient. No sensible person would replace one when its still working fine.

You can spend money though but on energy saving things like loft, cavity wall insulation or draught proofing.

Worcester is not the only boiler maker. Viessmann and Intergas also give a five year warrantee as well. Many would say that they are likely to be more reliable too.

Someone from this forum went to give a quote for a new boiler to someone local. He did not accept the quote but instead took a much higher one from British Gas.

The same installer then called to do the installation as a subcontractor to British Gas!

Tony

 

[thermistor]

workhard,

the 30CDi regular is the way to go. keep the system the way it is, update controls to best practice, make sure the system is flushed properly, keep it serviced, and it will serve you well.

went to a Baxi System boiler today, umpteen leaks inside the case around the pump, EV, nightmare service, lucky for the customer i have been keeping this pile of rubbish going for a few years, but soon it will be comming out and a nice new 30CDi regular going in its place, seperate EV, Pump etc.

what side of the river are you?

Andy (WAI)

 

[workhard]

Thank you very much.

1, As far as I understand, it is the control need to be updated (add 3 port zone valve for fully pumped, add sensor to the hot water cylinder, I have the programmer). I think any boiler design will be ok for upgrade to fully pump, no matter it is regular or system. Am I right?

2, Is there a regulation to force people to install the room thermostat if the TRVs have fitted?

2, I do not think it is necessary to change the main pipe supply for the reason to change a new boiler. Right?

Sometimes, people just want to fool other people. I do not like this.

workhard,

the 30CDi regular is the way to go. keep the system the way it is, update controls to best practice, make sure the system is flushed properly, keep it serviced, and it will serve you well.

went to a Baxi System boiler today, umpteen leaks inside the case around the pump, EV, nightmare service, lucky for the customer i have been keeping this pile of rubbish going for a few years, but soon it will be comming out and a nice new 30CDi regular going in its place, seperate EV, Pump etc.

what side of the river are you?

Andy (WAI)

 

[thermistor]

1. yes you will need to have the system upgraded to fully pumped. whatever the boiler.

2. a room thermostat provides a boiler interlock, this is mandatory on new and on boiler upgrades.

3. which pipe are you referring to, if it is gas your RGI will carryout an assesmant and needs to ensure the new boiler is supplied with the correct flow rate and pressure. if you are referring to water pipes (heating) chances are if your system requires upgrading, this will include reconfiguring the pipework

Andy

 

[workhard]

Thank you for kind reply.

Regarding the 3, the WAI person refer to is the main water supply pipe between the external stopcock and internal stopcock. It is a mixture of lead + steel pipe. He said the new boiler needs clean water. I cannot understand why the main supply pipe get anything to do with the boiler water. It is the F&E cistern which supply the water to the boiler, right?

1. yes you will need to have the system upgraded to fully pumped. whatever the boiler.

2. a room thermostat provides a boiler interlock, this is mandatory on new and on boiler upgrades.

3. which pipe are you referring to, if it is gas your RGI will carryout an assesmant and needs to ensure the new boiler is supplied with the correct flow rate and pressure. if you are referring to water pipes (heating) chances are if your system requires upgrading, this will include reconfiguring the pipework

Andy

 

[workhard]

I am in the north of the river, far north of London.

workhard,

the 30CDi regular is the way to go. keep the system the way it is, update controls to best practice, make sure the system is flushed properly, keep it serviced, and it will serve you well.

went to a Baxi System boiler today, umpteen leaks inside the case around the pump, EV, nightmare service, lucky for the customer i have been keeping this pile of rubbish going for a few years, but soon it will be comming out and a nice new 30CDi regular going in its place, seperate EV, Pump etc.

what side of the river are you?

Andy (WAI)

 

[thermistor]

correct - once the system is filled the water in the system would be treated with inhibitor. not necesary to change incoming main, that's a seperate issue.

 

[hansthebear]

3 port y plan for a 30kW boiler is nae good, needs to be an s plan with 2 separate zone valves

 

[workhard]

Thanks. So the WAI person made at least 2 mistakes. 1, He strongly suggested to use system not regular which I asked for, by saying only system one can do the fully pump and control. 2, He asked me to change the main water supply pipe by saying the new boiler needs clean water.

I think there are 2 possibilities he did this: A, he is incompetence, B, he fooled people in order to get more unnecessary jobs for more money which is even worse.

correct - once the system is filled the water in the system would be treated with inhibitor. not necesary to change incoming main, that's a seperate issue.

 

[Registered Gas Man]

Yep, as per therms advice I got a WAI firm in to do the install and as there were some complex pluming issues to resolve they knew what to do; I wouldn't be convinced that those without specific training would have been able to resolve these.

That is because statements like this are not true. Just beacuse you are WAI does not mean they train you how to plumb. What is means is they only install Worcester Boilers and give you a 5 year guarantee - on the boiler!

I am a BG subby.

I am a WAI - although haven't fitted one for months; too much money.