YALE 6200 with two working sirens

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

ahdsh

I have had an email from someone through these forums requesting help
with a Yale 6200 alarm and wanted another working siren.

This is a copy of my email in response to his problem...

Hi ******,
I don't mind you emailing me at all. Yale will tell you that you cannot have two working sirens with the 6200 system which is siren based. Certainly as you have found you cannot add a siren into a 6200 system as you can an additional sensor etc.
There is however a way to get round this problem and have two working sirens with a 6200 system.
You have to set up the second siren NOT as an addition to the first system but as if you are installing it as the main alarm.
First remove the second siren cover.
Switch the siren off and then to clear the memory put dip switch 1 into the on position while holding the learn button down for a couple of seconds.. there may be a brief faint flash from the led's. Then switch the siren on and put dip switch 1 back into the off position and dip switch 4 in the on position.
What you do now is programme this siren exactly the same way you did your first one.
Press the learn button so you see the two outside leds' flash once.
Now simply go round your appartment and press the learn button on the sensors. You will hear the loft siren bleep each time you press one of the sensors learn buttons.
With the keypad you need to press the top left red button followed by your code. This will set the keypad in programming mode (indicated by flashing green led) . Now press the top left button again followed the number 1. This sends a learn signal to the loft siren you should hear it beep. Then simply press the green key on the keypad a couple of times until the green light goes solid and then turns off.
Your last job is to go back to the loft siren and press the learn button on it again. You should see the central led flash once and hear a beep.
You have now programmed the second siren. At this stage the siren may activate just use your keypad as normal..ie green then your code to silence it.
Replace the cover and then test your system.
When you press arm now you should hear a confrmation bleep and led flash from both sirens. press green and your code and you should hear a double bleep from both sirens.

You now have a 6200 system working with two sirens.
The easiest way to programme a 6200 with two sirens is to do it when you are first setting up with the devices and sirens out on the floor or a table.
Then you simply switch both sirens into learn mode at the same time and programme them together. You are in effect creating two seperate 6200 systems with the sirens as masters and then programming them to respond to common devices..

There may be a slight delay in the bleeps . ie one siren may bleep slightly before the other when arming or disarming simply due to the different distances/radio path to each device from the sensor.
 
Sponsored Links
Joined
3 Nov 2006
Messages
26,939
Reaction score
2,901
Location
Bedfordshire
Country
United Kingdom
There may be a slight delay in the bleeps . ie one siren may bleep slightly before the other when arming or disarming simply due to the different distances/radio path to each device from the sensor.

That as the reason for the different start times of the bleeps is highly suspect

Speed of wireless signals is 186,000 miles per second.

So for a bleep to start one second before the other the radio path must be 186,000 miles long.

Or, if it were even possible to detect the difference by ear, 186 miles for a differnce in start time of one thousenths of a second difference.

I suspect there is a different reason for the different start times which may be the reason the manufacturers claim it is not possible to use two sirens on one system.

Packet collision from two units transmitting at the same time could be the reason. Both will detect collision ( as no reply received ) and after a delay will retry sending the packet. If they have sufficiently different delays before retry it will work. If they have similar delays before retry it could be quite a while before they both get their packets across the radio link.
 
A

ahdsh

Your response will be correct Bernard.
However I have not had any problems with devices never receiving a signal.
In a 6400 system where two sirens are programmed into the system and control coming from the panel there can be a delay of up to three or four seconds between each siren turning off after disarming.
Similarly with the 6200 the bleeps never occur absolutely simoultaneously , however they do still get through and I have had no reports of a system not activating or deactivating both sirens or of systems not arming or disarming correctly.
The delay probably reflects that the systems keep sending till they receive a confirmation reply which due to collision as you mention can result in differing times allthough as mentioned I have no reports of a non function.
 
Joined
3 Nov 2006
Messages
26,939
Reaction score
2,901
Location
Bedfordshire
Country
United Kingdom
The delay probably reflects that the systems keep sending till they receive a confirmation reply which due to collision as you mention can result in differing times allthough as mentioned I have no reports of a non function.

If the two units contesting against each other for a packet transmission and acknowledgement have the same delay before re-transmit time then there is a high probablity of the packet collisions continuing for a long time.

Only if the system is specifically designed to handle packet collisions can it then be assured of working reliably. To ensure that reliabilty it requires that different delay before re-transmit times are set in all modules.
 
Sponsored Links
A

ahdsh

Yes my supposition was wrong as mentioned but getting back to the actual practicalities I have never had a situation where the signals don't get through to both devices.
We are talking here about adding an extra siren so in a worst case scenario the house is never left unprotected just that one of the sirens may not be set. Similarly upon return if both are set and only one unsets then its simply a matter of reentering the system code again to stop an alarm if it activates.
There is no scenario where the system won't set.

However the above is a worst case scenario and I have never had a situation where the system hasn't worked as anticipated.

No I have never learnt about packets/signals etc just that when I install know I have to check the signals are being sent and recieved as per the walk test .
The control panel reports any devices that drop out as it does constant polling.
With the 6200 the siren confirms signal receipt with a beep anytime you press a device learn button
 
Joined
24 Jul 2008
Messages
251
Reaction score
15
Country
United Kingdom
Yale will tell you that you cannot have two working sirens with the 6200 system which is siren based.

I don’t think Yale say that for a laugh. Who ever makes the kit must have found a problem which could arise from having two sirens.
 
A

ahdsh

Who ever makes the kit must have found a problem which could arise from having two sirens.

Maybe so,but the email I received was from someone who had bought an extra siren but couldn't get it to work with his existing system.

I have provided a workable solution not documented by Yale. The worst case scenario is that only one siren will sound instead of two.
 
Joined
25 Jun 2009
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Location
Northamptonshire
Country
United Kingdom
Hello,

I just thought I would post a reply to this as I am the person who emailed fastalarms with the two sirens question.

If you don't mind me saying, I do think many of you are perhaps being a bit harsh on him and on Yale alarms in general - After all, this is as fastalarms has pointed out on numerous occasions a DIY site and forum and Yale are self-install / DIY systems.

A couple of questions have been posed... And I think, on this subject at least, I am in more of a position to respond to them than the members already involved in the thread.

The delay in beeps when arming or disarming the system - There is indeed a delay, but we are talking a fraction of a second. To talk about actual times really would be splitting hairs (with already split ends!)

And with regards to "Yale not saying that for a laugh" (or words to that effect) - Your right, Yale are a business... And they are as I understand it in the business of making money. To me (at least) it comes as no great surprise that they would rather not tell you how to improve the base model when they can sell you another model.

Either way, I followed the instructions from fastalarms - And after every test possible, everything works fine.

Once again, many thanks for your help fastalarms - I only hope you are able to offer advice in the future, free from vicious attacks.

:)
 
Joined
24 Jul 2008
Messages
251
Reaction score
15
Country
United Kingdom
And with regards to "Yale not saying that for a laugh" (or words to that effect) - Your right, Yale are a business... And they are as I understand it in the business of making money. To me (at least) it comes as no great surprise that they would rather not tell you how to improve the base model when they can sell you another model.

Yes maybe its to get you to buy the more expensive model or the manufacturer has found out that it's possible it could cause a problem on the basic model. e.g both sirens don't work at all.
 
Joined
25 Jun 2009
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Location
Northamptonshire
Country
United Kingdom
I know this is going to sound rude, but there really is no other way to say it...

What part of "And after every test possible, everything works fine" do you find hard to understand?
 
Joined
24 Jul 2008
Messages
251
Reaction score
15
Country
United Kingdom
I know this is going to sound rude, but there really is no other way to say it... What part of "And after every test possible, everything works fine" do you find hard to understand?

So what tests have you done? Do you have equipment to monitor the packet transmissions from both sirens?

Without doing proper tests and knowing the capabilities of the equipment you best follow what Yale say.

Who knows what adverse effects having a second siren could cause.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsored Links
Top