Zone control or other option???

[TheOriginalTableLeg]

The 3 core and earth is the harmonized colours.

Since when?

PS Pretty pic!

1st April 2004.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Cable/CableColoursLeaflet.pdf

 

[TheOriginalTableLeg]

Is this now correct?

View media item 30431

No! Read what I said:

However, I would swap the stat terminals (not the wires). So C and 6 are connected (Brown) and 1 and 8 are connected (blue/red). It's illogical the way that Honeywell draw it.

In other words leave the wires connected to the terminal strip exactly as in your first pic. Just swap them at the stat end.

I was just re reading this post and realised I had not read this properly .

Hopefully this is now what you mean?

View media item 30729

 

[TheOriginalTableLeg]

Looking at my existing wiring, the boiler connection to the junction box is 3 core and earth (Brown,Grey,Black and Earth).

Strange colour combination!

A question regarding the boiler connection.

My boiler has a Switched Live as well as a normal live connection.

Live
Sw Live
Neutral
Earth.

Referencing my previous drawings, is the Live and the Switched Live wired the same for the S Plan plus?

On my existing setup the Boiler live is connected to the main live in (Terminal 1) but has a Red tape marker on it (as in a Sw live), the Switched Live is connected to Terminal 8 along with the HW cylinder stat, the pump and the 3 port valve.

I have checked that Terminal 8 is the Switched live with my multimeter.

At the boiler end the wiring is as follows:

Black - Permanent Live
Brown - Switched Live
Grey - Neutral
Green/Yellow - Earth.

Its a bit confusing at the moment.

The system works, but is this wired correctly?

By the standard convention I realise that the Brown of the harmonised cable should be the Permanent live and the Black with the Red marker should be the Switched live, so should I ensure these are correct when the wiring is redone?

Or am I misunderstanding it?

This is how I figure it should be.
View media item 30757
Here's some labels of what I currently have.
View media item 30758
From what I can see from the wiring and the drawings, the orange wire which becomes live when the valve motors to its closed position is also connected to the HW cylinder stat and the Pump. This wire (Terminal which has become live then completes the circuit to the pump which starts the pump running and also supplies a live to the HW stat but this is kept open until the HW contact is made via pin 6 which is connected to the programmer HW output.
The boiler wire on Terminal 8 is fed live and with the permanent live already connected this starts the boiler running as well.

Is my thinking correct?

 

[TheOriginalTableLeg]

Looking at just the live connections, is this right?

View media item 30793

 

[D_Hailsham]

I was just re reading this post and realised I had not read this properly.

Hopefully this is now what you mean?

View media item 30729

Yes.

 

[D_Hailsham]

My boiler has a Switched Live as well as a normal live connection.

Live
Sw Live
Neutral
Earth.

Referencing my previous drawings, is the Live and the Switched Live wired the same for the S Plan plus?

Yes. The live is a permanent connection, i.e it is live even when the boiler is not working. Switched live is as it says: it turns the boiler on.

On my existing setup the Boiler live is connected to the main live in (Terminal 1) but has a Red tape marker on it (as in a Sw live)

If the cable colour is not red or brown, the red tape is just to indicate that it is "live" conductor, i.e not a neutral or earth.

the Switched Live is connected to Terminal 8 along with the HW cylinder stat, the pump and the 3 port valve.

That's correct. It should be HW stat terminal 1 (call) and 3-port valve Orange.

At the boiler end the wiring is as follows:

Black - Permanent Live
Brown - Switched Live
Grey - Neutral
Green/Yellow - Earth.

Its a bit confusing at the moment.

The system works, but is this wired correctly?

By the standard convention I realise that the Brown of the harmonised cable should be the Permanent live and the Black with the Red marker should be the Switched live, so should I ensure these are correct when the wiring is redone?

If it works, don't change it. Any half-decent electrician (who understands heating controls ) or heating engineer will be able to work out which wire does what.

From what I can see from the wiring and the drawings, the orange wire which becomes live when the valve motors to its closed position is also connected to the HW cylinder stat and the Pump. This wire (Terminal which has become live then completes the circuit to the pump which starts the pump running and also supplies a live to the HW stat but this is kept open until the HW contact is made via pin 6 which is connected to the programmer HW output.

I assume you are talking about the existing system , ie the 3-port valve.

You have it back to front! The programmer HW ON supplies voltage to the HW stat C terminal. If the water temperature is below setting the stat is closed, so 240V is supplied to the pump and boiler switched live, which gets the boiler going.

It might help if you read Mid-position valve working and Diagnostics.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Looking at just the live connections, is this right?

View media item 30793

That's OK, but I'm not sure why you show the boiler wire as orange and valve wires as white.

 

[TheOriginalTableLeg]

Looking at just the live connections, is this right?

View media item 30793

That's OK, but I'm not sure why you show the boiler wire as orange and valve wires as white.

Hmmmm . The White wires were referenced from a drawing I found online. Having looked at the numerous drawings I have since found they all appear to show a 3 port valve with the following colours.

Green/Yellow
Blue
Orange
Grey
White

On my 3 port valve it is the White which is connected to the Terminal 5 (CH ON).

Is this wrong?

Can you tell me what colour wires you would have expected to see in my drawing above?

In regards to the boiler wire being shown as Orange, I only did it to show that the path of the flow was to the boiler from the terminal it is connected to i.e. 8

 

[TheOriginalTableLeg]

It might help if you read How a mid-position valve works.

Can you please tell me what are the black lines with Yellow on them?

To be honest I find the drawing in relation to the wires a bit confusing.

If I can help in anyway with any drawings dont hesitate to shout and I'll photoshop them up for you.

 

[TheOriginalTableLeg]

Ah ha

I see where I have made a mistake. I have just looked at the 2 port valves I have here and they do not have a White wire at all. Only Green/Yellow,
Grey,
Blue,
Orange,
Brown.

That's explains why the drawing I have made is wrong.

 

[TheOriginalTableLeg]

This is a simplified 2 Zone 2 port setup.

I hope this is correct.
View media item 30839
And the additional 2 port HW setup
View media item 30838
From what I can see of the Honeywell wiring diagram for the 2 port valve Terminal 1 (Live in) is bridged to (on my drawing Terminal 4) the terminal which has all 3 grey wires from all 3 valves.

 

[TheOriginalTableLeg]

Another question has occurred to me.

Will I need to use a second 10 connection wiring centre?

With using the s plan plus it'll mean a lot of wires into the same terminals i.e. Live, Neutral and Earths.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Can you please tell me what are the black lines with Yellow on them?

The black lines are power in. The yellow lines represent the programmer and two thermostats. The CH side of the programmer is not shown as it is not important to the way the valve works. If the yellow line connects two black lines it means the switch or thermostat is closed, allowing current to pass.

To use the "HW only" drawing as an example. When calling for heat both the HW prog ON switch and the HW stat Call will be closed. The CH stat and/or prog switch will be OFF.

In the case of "CH only", the CH stat Call is closed (and prog CH ON) while the HW OFF and/or the HW stat Sat, must be closed (either of these can put volts onto the grey wire).

I know the diagrams are untidy, but all I have is MS paint and Word drawing. If you can produce better ones, I will certainly make use of them.

 

[D_Hailsham]

I see where I have made a mistake. I have just looked at the 2 port valves I have here and they do not have a White wire at all. Only Green/Yellow,
Grey,
Blue,
Orange,
Brown.

That's explains why the drawing I have made is wrong.

I wondered why you suddenly went from talking about two-port valves to three port.

As you have found out, they are completely different in the way they work. The two port is very simple as it is either open or shut; while the three port has some crafty switching and components to make it stop in the mid-position.

 

[TheOriginalTableLeg]

Can you please tell me what are the black lines with Yellow on them?

The black lines are power in. The yellow lines represent the programmer and two thermostats. The CH side of the programmer is not shown as it is not important to the way the valve works. If the yellow line connects two black lines it means the switch or thermostat is closed, allowing current to pass.

To use the "HW only" drawing as an example. When calling for heat both the HW prog ON switch and the HW stat Call will be closed. The CH stat and/or prog switch will be OFF.

In the case of "CH only", the CH stat Call is closed (and prog CH ON) while the HW OFF and/or the HW stat Sat, must be closed (either of these can put volts onto the grey wire).

I know the diagrams are untidy, but all I have is MS paint and Word drawing. If you can produce better ones, I will certainly make use of them.

If I can get my head around what exactly is going on, I will gladly do you some new drawings that you can use for future postings.

I'll draw the basic outlines first, and then perhaps you can chip in with the extra details as I go?