I thought god was supposed to be everywhere; not hiding in a bin.
No wonder there's no evidence.
No wonder there's no evidence.
God
- Thread starter fatfred2
- Start date
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Yes, he is, indeed, it will take us a while to construct scientific instruments capable of fully detecting him and then interacting with him, one day, thou shall speak to God through an app on your smart phone! wait and see.
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S
Shutpa
Not if you are a believer it's not.
Also, what does + or - 10 years ago mean?
I'm sorry, but I was in a hurry when I was replying! I should have taken the time to google Unwin's work OR should have said around 10 years ago. But here is the link I should have included at the time of posting my last reply. Apologies again.
http://www.stephenunwin.com/
I realised how wrong I am , nope no one will be able to communicate through a smart phone of even future, have you not heard of the word "Telepathy " so this is the branch of social science that we need to develop and focus our minds on it, this together with the theory of Entanglement, we could start talking to Quarks, and ask them questions, and get answers before we even asked a question! Isn't that wonderful!
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S
Shutpa
I wish you'd said that earlier Mike! I've been trying his number but keep getting the automated reply that "The person you wish to speak to is not, and never will be, available".
Yes, of course I've heard of telepathy Mike. But that doesn't work either! Despite every single telepathic message I've sent to members of my family in the past hour or so, they have totally ignored my plea for a double brandy and a cheese sandwich. If you'll excuse me for a few minutes, I'll go and get my own supper.
Good idea Mike. Given that the six quarks are in 3 pairs; up/down, charm/ strange and top/bottom, how would you address your questions. Would you have 6 questions ie 1 for each quark or just 3 questions ie 1 for each quark pair? And what sort of questions would you ask? You could of course ask the following:
Q. I know when each of you was discovered by man but prior to your discovery, just how long has each of you existed?
Q. Given the immensity of your function, I find that the names given to you, are silly to say the least. What do you think? I'll start with you Bottom.
etc, etc
It would be wonderful Mike. But why ask the question if you can get the answer before asking the question?
Your logical approach invalidates the need for even thinking of asking the questions in the first place.
Christ! you have been thinking again, I need to think now!
S
Shutpa
Mike. Mike. Mike. You have annoyed me no end this morning. Just sitting here twiddling my thumbs after breakfast, decided to log on here, and what do I see? This:
Now that that's out of the way, we can turn to this:
If I understand you correctly, because we would know the answers before we asked the questions, your ideal would lie in the direction of a world without questions. My ideal is not dissimilar. However, rather than a world without questions mine would be a world without thinking. Now if you were to go along with me on this, it would not be possible for you to write things like this.....
.....or ask yourself, "What will I have for breakfast?"
Well Mike. Will it take on? And you're not allowed to think about your answer!!!
Now Mike, you know perfectly well, that on DIYnot, my user name is Shutpa and I therefore object to you addressing me on this forum as:
Now over at my other place, www.paradise.com that would be OK but here it is Shutpa. OK?
Now that that's out of the way, we can turn to this:
Do you realise what you've just said Mike? Without asking me a question, you have come up with a statement that's absolutely true. In your own words, "Isn't that wonderful?" Yes indeed, I have been thinking! And along the same lines as you as it happens.
If I understand you correctly, because we would know the answers before we asked the questions, your ideal would lie in the direction of a world without questions. My ideal is not dissimilar. However, rather than a world without questions mine would be a world without thinking. Now if you were to go along with me on this, it would not be possible for you to write things like this.....
.....or ask yourself, "What will I have for breakfast?"
Well Mike. Will it take on? And you're not allowed to think about your answer!!!
Shutpa, are you trying to drag me into a black hole, from which there is no escape? yes I often stumble on things, and have to reenergise my brain, I actually composed some replies to your questions but i am no good at multi-quoting so I had to delete my replies as they all merged together into one box, rather than individual replies to each of your points. I need to mastermind my skills with multi quoting using square brackets. I need thinking for that.
Is thinking when a subject is just in your head or only when you are working out something by a process of deduction?
What do people who can't think do when they're doing nothing?
As for knowing the answer before asking the question, I don't think (oops) we're there yet because I didn't ask two questions this morning and I still don't know the answers.
What do people who can't think do when they're doing nothing?
As for knowing the answer before asking the question, I don't think (oops) we're there yet because I didn't ask two questions this morning and I still don't know the answers.
I am sure one bases their thinking when a subject has touched their nerves, so you start working on that, many people can't be bothered on a subject that is not their cup of tea, and if one is asked to say something on that subject which does not interest a person, you would get weird answers or just "Sorry I don't know" but even if one doesn't know, one can always make a subjective comments.
S
Shutpa
In my opinion, it is both. Given that thinking is the process we use to give consideration to something, it doesn't matter whether that something is 'just in your head' or you are actively "working out something by a process of deduction". In both scenarios, you are of course, thinking.
As far as I can see, are two answers to this question.
1. We will never know, because if there are people who can't think, and since apart from existing through breathing etc, action requires thought which they don't have, then they will never be doing anything anyway. And you can't even ask them for without thought, they are incapable of interpreting your question.
2. If the people who can't think are "doing nothing" , then that is exactly what they do. Nothing, because without thought, they cannot do otherwise.
Can't agree Mike. As I said above, thinking, in my opinion, is the process we use to give consideration to something. That something can indeed be a subject which in your words "has touched their nerves" but could equally be anything from "Should I have jam or marmalade on my toast this morning?" to "Will I walk or take the car today?"
OK Mike. But what if you produced the quark image attached? Would it not be better to admit that one had no idea what a quark is rather than:
I am not a good psychologist, obviously most of your questions are related to human psychology, how we think, what we might think, or a what a person might think when asked a certain question like when assessing someone's mental health, and that person's answers can reflect a lot about his or her personality, the state of his mind, and intellect, I consider myself as an average or less than average bloke with a big quest for the Truth, I am one of those guys who believe millions of us can't be wrong that God has to exists, even if we have not found any direct evidence of him, but there are lots of foot prints he has left which cannot be explained or ignored otherwise, scientist on the other hand wants to dismiss God and they have their way to prove that a God is NOT needed because of x,y,z, and I am trying to rule that out by equally proving that God MUST exist to have created this universe,
Scientist claims that universe came out of Nothing, I refuse to believe this, but then Scientist say Nothing does not mean absolute Nothing but something, which is neutral, ( as in neutron which has neither negative nor positive charge) I am not physicist, so I only have less than basic knowledge of science, I gather much of my knowledge from reading articles, watching scientific documentaries, you tube, etc, my knowledge of science is based on O level physics, and so this gives me a lot of handicap, but when one day I had worked out that God was none other than greatest source of Energy, I was so relived, since before that I refused to believe fairy tale stories about God in religious books, I do not follow any particular religion but firmly believe in a creator of some form or kind, like Energy.
How else can matter be created other than from pure Energy.
But here is how I reached this verdict, and I was very hungry for an answer, yet no one could give me a logical answer apart from everyone I asked one question that was bothering me so much for many years, the question that intrigued me was:
1. Let us assume for a minute that God is there. so my question would be addressed to those who were believers, and I would then ask them "WHERE DID GOD GET HIS RAW MATERIALS TO FORM A UNIVERSE FROM? where did he get his raw materials from to construct giant planets, starts, moons, and trillions upon trillions of starts and galaxies?
so this was my most intriguing question that would not let me sleep, and I am glad I did not learn science in a school to any higher level than 0 levels, otherwise my mind would have been corrupted by science, so here I was looking for an answer independently, asking religious people if they could really relieve my anxiety about God how he may have created this earth moon stars etc, I would ask them things like Where Did God get his raw materials from to form these solid objects from, there were no B&Q, or Wickes or other building supplies where God could go and get materials to construct a great big Universe with.
So most religious people answered me this: Mike why are you so bothered about this, why don't you just accept that God is an Almighty and powerful and he can usher a word and or wave a magic wand and abra ka debra let there be universe and a universe came into existence, i was not going to accept that childish answer, a 5 year old child may accept that answer, I was 45 years old when I was asking that question, I wanted a logical answer.
many even told me to stop worrying about it and just accept that God created it.
Then I was one day sitting by my desk, and suddenly like lightening, 3 years since I have been desperately trying to seek an answer, a powerful thought came into my mind and it said ( of course it did not speak to me, it was just a thought) and I said to myself, bloody hell! why did I not think of this before......Of course if there was nothing before God created the Universe, therefore assuming only He alone existed with nothing else apart from himself, then by definition of logic, whatever he created, and all the raw materials he needed to create a universe, He must have got it out of Himself, where else could he have obtained any raw material from if there was not anything else apart from Himself. .
So this was so simple yet it kept me in dark for nearly 3 years, I was so pleased with this logical conclusion , I was 99% satisfied with this answer, much better than religious people telling me that God is almighty and powerful and he can create anything, so my conclusion lifted a lot of burden off my mind.
But then immediately after this another question arose, and this was :
What kind of person, or thing is God who can produce or create all the matter from within himself to have created this universe?
Then fortunately it did not take me another 3 years to get this question answered, but in less than 5 minutes, I remembered a physics Statement, which I still don't know where i got it in my head from, either i must have read it in my O level physics class or a physics text book, or read it somewhere, but the main thing was that this statement was completely meaningless to me before, but now suddenly it made a great deal of sense, this statement that " ALL MATTER IS COMPOSED OF ENERGY " it was embedded in my head from when i don't even know, so now it became much clearere to me that GOD must be some kind of Energy that is capable of creating a vast universe from within himself and he therefore must be Energy.
Now I don't ask anyone this question, but instead I tell them how God created this universe and what kind of thing God is in order for him to achieve this.
But I am sure there are millions of other questions that one has for God, such as why is there difference between people, why there are rich and poor, why is there is pain and destruction, hurricanes and earth quakes killing lots of people, why is there bigger animals eating smaller animals, why is there so much pain in life etc etec, etc,
Right now I am working on this, and I am sure I will get an answer, theory of entanglement may just help me as did that physics statement that all matter is composed of energy.
Scientist claims that universe came out of Nothing, I refuse to believe this, but then Scientist say Nothing does not mean absolute Nothing but something, which is neutral, ( as in neutron which has neither negative nor positive charge) I am not physicist, so I only have less than basic knowledge of science, I gather much of my knowledge from reading articles, watching scientific documentaries, you tube, etc, my knowledge of science is based on O level physics, and so this gives me a lot of handicap, but when one day I had worked out that God was none other than greatest source of Energy, I was so relived, since before that I refused to believe fairy tale stories about God in religious books, I do not follow any particular religion but firmly believe in a creator of some form or kind, like Energy.
How else can matter be created other than from pure Energy.
But here is how I reached this verdict, and I was very hungry for an answer, yet no one could give me a logical answer apart from everyone I asked one question that was bothering me so much for many years, the question that intrigued me was:
1. Let us assume for a minute that God is there. so my question would be addressed to those who were believers, and I would then ask them "WHERE DID GOD GET HIS RAW MATERIALS TO FORM A UNIVERSE FROM? where did he get his raw materials from to construct giant planets, starts, moons, and trillions upon trillions of starts and galaxies?
so this was my most intriguing question that would not let me sleep, and I am glad I did not learn science in a school to any higher level than 0 levels, otherwise my mind would have been corrupted by science, so here I was looking for an answer independently, asking religious people if they could really relieve my anxiety about God how he may have created this earth moon stars etc, I would ask them things like Where Did God get his raw materials from to form these solid objects from, there were no B&Q, or Wickes or other building supplies where God could go and get materials to construct a great big Universe with.
So most religious people answered me this: Mike why are you so bothered about this, why don't you just accept that God is an Almighty and powerful and he can usher a word and or wave a magic wand and abra ka debra let there be universe and a universe came into existence, i was not going to accept that childish answer, a 5 year old child may accept that answer, I was 45 years old when I was asking that question, I wanted a logical answer.
many even told me to stop worrying about it and just accept that God created it.
Then I was one day sitting by my desk, and suddenly like lightening, 3 years since I have been desperately trying to seek an answer, a powerful thought came into my mind and it said ( of course it did not speak to me, it was just a thought) and I said to myself, bloody hell! why did I not think of this before......Of course if there was nothing before God created the Universe, therefore assuming only He alone existed with nothing else apart from himself, then by definition of logic, whatever he created, and all the raw materials he needed to create a universe, He must have got it out of Himself, where else could he have obtained any raw material from if there was not anything else apart from Himself. .
So this was so simple yet it kept me in dark for nearly 3 years, I was so pleased with this logical conclusion , I was 99% satisfied with this answer, much better than religious people telling me that God is almighty and powerful and he can create anything, so my conclusion lifted a lot of burden off my mind.
But then immediately after this another question arose, and this was :
What kind of person, or thing is God who can produce or create all the matter from within himself to have created this universe?
Then fortunately it did not take me another 3 years to get this question answered, but in less than 5 minutes, I remembered a physics Statement, which I still don't know where i got it in my head from, either i must have read it in my O level physics class or a physics text book, or read it somewhere, but the main thing was that this statement was completely meaningless to me before, but now suddenly it made a great deal of sense, this statement that " ALL MATTER IS COMPOSED OF ENERGY " it was embedded in my head from when i don't even know, so now it became much clearere to me that GOD must be some kind of Energy that is capable of creating a vast universe from within himself and he therefore must be Energy.
Now I don't ask anyone this question, but instead I tell them how God created this universe and what kind of thing God is in order for him to achieve this.
But I am sure there are millions of other questions that one has for God, such as why is there difference between people, why there are rich and poor, why is there is pain and destruction, hurricanes and earth quakes killing lots of people, why is there bigger animals eating smaller animals, why is there so much pain in life etc etec, etc,
Right now I am working on this, and I am sure I will get an answer, theory of entanglement may just help me as did that physics statement that all matter is composed of energy.
Some of the individual questions efl asked, these are my opinions on those questions:
efl you asked : Is thinking when a subject is just in your head or only when you are working out something by a process of deduction?
Yes I think it is both as well. as an example in my post above about how i reached God being Energy.
efl you asked : People who can't think or are not thinking, what do they do:
My guess is they would be tired, sleepy, just not interested in any thing, in a state of semi conscious, sadly I have to say many people simply do not like thinking, and I have seen most people will just do things without thinking or do things without a foresight, and they often get into trouble, like some builders who do not plan well, later on stumble across a problem and have to take apart all the work they done only to redo again because they did not think or plan properly before.
Shutpa, you said : Can't agree Mike. As I said above, thinking, in my opinion, is the process we use to give consideration to something. That something can indeed be a subject which in your words "has touched their nerves" but could equally be anything from "Should I have jam or marmalade on my toast this morning?" to "Will I walk or take the car today?"
I agree, a conscious person will always be thinking of something or other, even a lightly sleep person can be thinking whilst trying to fall asleep, he could be dreading work for next day, thinking of anything for that matter, will I get up early etc etc, but one can also influence a person's thinking, induce a thinking, like if you make a threat to someone, he may not help thinking about your threat, and what he is going to do if you did come over to threaten him, he may be trying to find ways to counter your threat and so on, yu introduced that thinking into him, it was not his independent thinking, otherwise he would be thinking of butter on toast or jam on toast or watever.
efl you asked : Is thinking when a subject is just in your head or only when you are working out something by a process of deduction?
Yes I think it is both as well. as an example in my post above about how i reached God being Energy.
efl you asked : People who can't think or are not thinking, what do they do:
My guess is they would be tired, sleepy, just not interested in any thing, in a state of semi conscious, sadly I have to say many people simply do not like thinking, and I have seen most people will just do things without thinking or do things without a foresight, and they often get into trouble, like some builders who do not plan well, later on stumble across a problem and have to take apart all the work they done only to redo again because they did not think or plan properly before.
Shutpa, you said : Can't agree Mike. As I said above, thinking, in my opinion, is the process we use to give consideration to something. That something can indeed be a subject which in your words "has touched their nerves" but could equally be anything from "Should I have jam or marmalade on my toast this morning?" to "Will I walk or take the car today?"
I agree, a conscious person will always be thinking of something or other, even a lightly sleep person can be thinking whilst trying to fall asleep, he could be dreading work for next day, thinking of anything for that matter, will I get up early etc etc, but one can also influence a person's thinking, induce a thinking, like if you make a threat to someone, he may not help thinking about your threat, and what he is going to do if you did come over to threaten him, he may be trying to find ways to counter your threat and so on, yu introduced that thinking into him, it was not his independent thinking, otherwise he would be thinking of butter on toast or jam on toast or watever.
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If you happened to meet god one afternoon and she confirmed that she did not exist, how would you prove it to anyone?
I think it pretty obvious that there wasn't a B&Q or Wickes for your energy to get all her materials but there may have been a Jewson's and that could be where she got the idea for Jesus.
I think it pretty obvious that there wasn't a B&Q or Wickes for your energy to get all her materials but there may have been a Jewson's and that could be where she got the idea for Jesus.
First of all, If I happen to meet god one afternoon, how would she then be able to confirm that she really doesn't exist? do you think she could fool me like scientist can, or could it be that god will tell me she doesn't really exist but I might be seeing her Ghost instead? or better still Psychologist may say i am suffering from a delusion i need to be detained in one of the mental health asylum!
But you can only fool some of the people some of the time, and you cannot fool all the people all of the time, the truth is God does exist even despite we have no direct evidence of him, how many of you have actually seen quarks, not the ones in the above picture shutpa posted! lol and how many scientist have actually seen them spinning up and down? and do our observation not influence their spin?
isn't all this the make up of energy?
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