Oops sorry missed that bit
What prep can I do ready for a house rewire?
- Thread starter steshaw74
- Start date
It's the 'no worse than before' part where shades of grey and ambiguity are introduced. If a full rewire was simply using the existing accessory locations then it would be fine to keep them out of the Part M zone. However practically any full rewire of an old property will be adding more socket outlets and other accessories. In that case it could be argued that, say, 30 socket outlets out of the Part M zones is 'more uncompliant' than the original 20 socket outlets outside the Part M zone. Therefore any extra sockets must be in the Part M zone, so you may as well put them all there or it'll look a bit silly.
For what it's worth, rightly or wrongly, it has been made clear to me that my LABC holds the above interpretation of the rules, and that my sockets etc are to be put within the Part M zone during my full renovation if I ever want a completion cert! Not that it bothers me, as I was going to do that anyway - not a single original socket is where i want it and I already like the new heights despite initially thinking the light switches look rather odd down there.
Liam
For what it's worth, rightly or wrongly, it has been made clear to me that my LABC holds the above interpretation of the rules, and that my sockets etc are to be put within the Part M zone during my full renovation if I ever want a completion cert! Not that it bothers me, as I was going to do that anyway - not a single original socket is where i want it and I already like the new heights despite initially thinking the light switches look rather odd down there.
Liam
Depends whether you consider the/a refurb to be a "material alteration" or not, I guess. Down to interpretation again. Similarly with the "not less compliant" requirement, all depends how you define "less compliant" and the definitions are not clearly or comprehensively explained.
All moot points really since each LABC does what the hell it likes anyway.
All moot points really since each LABC does what the hell it likes anyway.
Nail... head... hit!
No - the Building Regulations contain an explicit definition of "material alteration"
There's sod-all they can do regarding Part M - the Building Regulations explicitly say that it doesn't apply to an extension of or material alteration of a dwelling....
..."However, an extension of a dwelling, or a material alteration of a dwelling, must not make the building less compliant in relation to Part M than it was before"
So it doesn't apply except in so far as it does apply, which is what it sounds like LiamPope's LABC are claiming.
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If it's a 17th Edition rewire the whole Part M thing is built in to the regulations. Heights of sockets and switches have to be between 450mm and 1200mm regardless. Even the consumer unit should be within that height bracket though that is often not bothered about by most of us. The NIC are getting quite hot on this one and to be honest most of my customers are much happier with the new heights. If it's a new installation (which is what a rewire is) then you would be prudent not to dismiss the new heights as you wouldn't want the upheaval of changing them after the plasterer has finished.
I can't see that quoted phrase anywhere in the Building Regulations.
I can see these relevant sentences though:
- “material alteration” has the meaning given in regulation 3(2);
- Meaning of building work
3.—(1) In these Regulations “building work” means—
(a) the erection or extension of a building;
(b) the provision or extension of a controlled service or fitting in or in connection with a building;
(c) the material alteration of a building, or a controlled service or fitting, as mentioned in paragraph (2);
(2) An alteration is material for the purposes of these Regulations if the work, or any part of it, would at any stage result—
(a) in a building or controlled service or fitting not complying with a relevant requirement where previously it did; or
(b) in a building or controlled service or fitting which before the work commenced did not
comply with a relevant requirement, being more unsatisfactory in relation to such a requirement.
(3) In paragraph (2) “relevant requirement” means any of the following applicable requirements of Schedule 1, namely—
Part A (structure)
paragraph B1 (means of warning and escape)
paragraph B3 (internal fire spread—structure)
paragraph B4 (external fire spread)
paragraph B5 (access and facilities for the fire service)
Part M (access to and use of buildings).
- PART M ACCESS TO AND USE OF BUILDINGS
Access and use
M1 Reasonable provision shall be made for people to—
(a) gain access to; and
(b) use the building and its facilities
The requirements of this Part do not apply to—
(a) an extension of or material alteration of a dwelling;
They are plainly wrong, but since Liam is happy to have the sockets & switches at those heights it doesn't affect him.
Which Wiring Regulation says that?
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Can't find a specific regulation having said that. Pretty sure it's in the onsite guide but during my last visit from my NIC area engineer they're taking the line that the new heights should be kept to. If it's a new installation like a rewire Part M will apply in this instance as should Part B, L, F and P.
That's because there isn't one. Part M is not built into the Wiring Regulations.
The On-Site Guide points out that "the Building Regulations require switches and sockets in new dwellings to be installed so that....".
Who are - NICEIC?
Do they now think that they write the Building Regulations as well as the Wiring Regulations?
No it won't!
Which bit of "The requirements of this Part do not apply to an extension of or material alteration of a dwelling" don't you get?
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Okay, i agree with you on there being no reference to socket heights in BS7671. I'll agree with you I am definitely incorrect there.
The onsite guide states on page 64 7.5.1 that:
'The guidance given in Approved Document M applies to all new dwellings. Note that if a dwelling is rewired there is no requirement to provide the measures described above providing that upon completion the building is no worse in terms of level of compliance with the other Parts of Schedule 1 to the Building Regulations'
Again this would prove me wrong until you look in to Schedule 1 of the Building Regulations. Now if you look in to what Schedule 1 is about you will find this information at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Planning/BuildingRegulations/DG_10014147:
Now correct me if i'm wrong but a rewire comes under Part P which is contained in Schedule 1 of the Building regulations as previously talked about in the onsite guide.
So if you look to Approved Document P (http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf) under section 1.6 on page 11 you will read the section on 'Accessibility' which states:
Now with your rewire coming under Building Regulations since the introduction of Part P (Jan 2005) surely the sockets and switch heights must then comply with Part M so that they can legally be signed off? I know the Onsite Guide seems to say you can have them any height you want but follow the trail full circle and up pops Part M.
The onsite guide states on page 64 7.5.1 that:
'The guidance given in Approved Document M applies to all new dwellings. Note that if a dwelling is rewired there is no requirement to provide the measures described above providing that upon completion the building is no worse in terms of level of compliance with the other Parts of Schedule 1 to the Building Regulations'
Again this would prove me wrong until you look in to Schedule 1 of the Building Regulations. Now if you look in to what Schedule 1 is about you will find this information at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Planning/BuildingRegulations/DG_10014147:
Now correct me if i'm wrong but a rewire comes under Part P which is contained in Schedule 1 of the Building regulations as previously talked about in the onsite guide.
So if you look to Approved Document P (http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf) under section 1.6 on page 11 you will read the section on 'Accessibility' which states:
Now with your rewire coming under Building Regulations since the introduction of Part P (Jan 2005) surely the sockets and switch heights must then comply with Part M so that they can legally be signed off? I know the Onsite Guide seems to say you can have them any height you want but follow the trail full circle and up pops Part M.
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