Daily Telegraph Expert says homeowners can fit own boilers

"Competence" in gas is not defined and would be argued over by lawyers on salaries that you would only dream about with a Judge making a final decision based on the merits of the evidence ( and largely swayed by the skill of the relevant lawyers ).

Outside of a court someones competence is demonstrated by a pass in an ACS or other relevant gas assessment.

A lack of competence would be demonstrated by holding no ACS and having made a mess of gas work like an explosion, CO poisoning or a gas leak.

Tony
 
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A lack of competence would be demonstrated by holding no ACS and having made a mess of gas work like an explosion, CO poisoning or a gas leak.

may i be devil`s advocate here.

as re your quote above Tony, that would be the reason you are in a court.
this is what would happen to a diyer (or an rgi) who`s gas work resulted in an explosion,CO poisoning or a gas leak. and quite right IMHO.

what would happen if a diyer installed a new boiler,contacted gassaferegister,requested an inspection, and the inspector could not find one fault on the complete installation?

does the inspector report him to the HSE?

again only playing devil`s advocate
 
what would happen if a diyer installed a new boiler,contacted gassaferegister,requested an inspection, and the inspector could not find one fault on the complete installation?

does the inspector report him to the HSE?

He would have done nothing wrong and nothing would happen as he had breached no laws.

The potential problem is that most DIYers do not have the knowledge or experience to do gas work safely and dont have the equipment to test anything. When only 5% of RGIs have an FGA its unlikely that any DIYer will ever have one.

Just once, a couple of years ago, I went somewhere by tube and had rather more to drink that would be permissible for driving. However, I had taken my car and parked near the tube station and drove it home afterwards. As I drove extra carefully and had no accidents or incidents and arrived home safely so nothing happened.

Tony
 
He would have done nothing wrong and nothing would happen as he had breached no laws.

i agree.

so a diyer CAN legally install a gas appliance.

don`t move away from the hypothetical Tony, about FGA`s etc etc
i believe that if a diyer installs his own gas appliance 100% tu the MI`s,
conforms with the relevant British Standards etc then best of luck to him/her.

i also believe that there will be diyers who now think they have a green light to bodge away.
 
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again i ask where in the gas regs does it define competence dextrous?
Taken in conjuction with HSE definition of competence "A competent person is someone who has sufficient training and experience...", Part B of the regs (section 3) make it a pretty clear (although I admit, not exactly concise) definition.
 
again i ask where in the gas regs does it define competence dextrous?
Taken in conjuction with HSE definition of competence "A competent person is someone who has sufficient training and experience...", Part B of the regs (section 3) make it a pretty clear (although I admit, not exactly concise) definition.

agreed dex, but these laws are in place to prosecute you if you make a big f**k up.

if everything is fine and dandy you cant be prosecuted for a perfectly functioning boiler "illeegaly" installed, as its perfect functioning proves your competency.

not trying to start a war, just playing devils advocate (might have already stated that!!!)


ps i think this will be a 10 pager!!
 
if everything is fine and dandy you cant be prosecuted for a perfectly functioning boiler "illeegaly" installed, as its perfect functioning proves your competency.

Not sure I agree with the wording "can't be prosecuted", since if one (a DIYer can be viewed as a self-employed person (indeed a gas installer as he is installing a gas appliance) working for profit (as in not paying someone else to improve his home, which will be reflected in the selling price as a job not needing doing)) is not an HSE approved "competent" person, then one has broken the law. Thus one could be prosecuted, although it may be highly unlikely.

Bit convoluted, that sentence, hope it makes some sort of sense.
 
I don't even know why I'm getting involved in all this - as I'm not a gas fitter. :rolleyes:
 
Mrs B who has no driving licence or insurance takes husband's car amd drives it somewhere.

If she drived without any accident or incident then she is only guilty of driving without a licence or insurance.

In a practical situation its unlikely that she will be able to drive safely and will probably demonstrate driving without dure care or attention or worse have an accident.

Tony
 
He would have done nothing wrong and nothing would happen as he had breached no laws.

Just once, a couple of years ago, I went somewhere by tube and had rather more to drink that would be permissible for driving. However, I had taken my car and parked near the tube station and drove it home afterwards. As I drove extra carefully and had no accidents or incidents and arrived home safely so nothing happened.

Tony
I disagree with your first sentence, citing your example s proof - a random police stop at that point would have led to your prosecution, as you well know, since you had done something wrong and had breached some laws.
 
Mrs B who has no driving licence or insurance takes husband's car amd drives it somewhere.

If she drived without any accident or incident then she is only guilty of driving without a licence or insurance.
Tony
This again refers to "guilty" - as in legally.
 
"Competence" in gas is not defined and would be argued over by lawyers on salaries that you would only dream about with a Judge making a final decision based on the merits of the evidence ( and largely swayed by the skill of the relevant lawyers ).
agreed
Outside of a court someones competence is demonstrated by a pass in an ACS or other relevant gas assessment.
yes demonstrated to the likes of a government approved body to prove competence in respect to gaswork for reward

A lack of competence would be demonstrated by holding no ACS and having made a mess of gas work like an explosion, CO poisoning or a gas leak.

A lack of competence would equally be demonstrated by holding an ACS and having made a mess of gas work like an explosion, CO poisoning or a gas leak.
I'm not saying that averyone should fit their own boilers indeed its probably out of the scope of most diyers to do competently.but not all! for instance would you class doitall as incompetent?
If say for example you retired last year and due to legislation you had to pay a grand to join gas safe would you pay it? I doubt it. no need to. what then if your own boiler broke down? would you fix it? would you class yourself as incompetent? I have worked in the electrical industry for 31 yrs, time served and just been back to collage to upgrade to 17th edition I now work in commercial maintenance as an engineer and although we have electricians I am not employed as one so i paid for the course myself because I wanted to keep myself upgraded and the way the economy is going I might need to work again as an electrician and 17th edition will be a stipulation to proving competence to getting said job in the same way as ACS does to joining gas-safe, but saying that ,because of part p I cant for example fit my own fuseboard but i can if i do it through the company or building control. I wouldn't call my self incompetent to do it,its just the way legislation dictates.
What i do for a living now is basically "fixing things" I've always been good at fault finding,diagnostics and repair it keeps my mind active and I dont get bored because I "cross trade" so one week I will be working on HVAC plant next week i might be working on an industrial flight dishwasher a jetwash, a nursecall system,replacing mechanical seals on a pump or helping the sparks out if they're stuck with a fault or what ever "jack of all trades master of none" perhaps! but I will judged by my my work and my peers and in 31 yrs of work i have never been sacked or reprimanded for bad workmanship yet
yes I too have fitted my own central heating system in my house I admit it' but I was confident to do it and I had the benefit of having access to the tools (and RGIs ) at work but I refused to do my sisters because I wasn't qualified or anybody Else's that have offered payment I always do my own joinery at home too,and wallpapering but plastering and painting? no way I pay some one to do those jobs I cant get a wall smooth or "cut in" to save my life I'm just not "competent "for those jobs and I know it
and i've just realised i'm waffling on that will be the vodka sorry lol
 
again i ask where in the gas regs does it define competence dextrous?
Taken in conjuction with HSE definition of competence "A competent person is someone who has sufficient training and experience...", Part B of the regs (section 3) make it a pretty clear (although I admit, not exactly concise) definition.
A competent person is someone who has sufficient training and experience
no mention of qualifications but I Definitely agree with the definition
PART B GAS FITTINGS - GENERAL PROVISIONS

Qualification and supervision

3. - (1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

still there is no definition of competence everything else below here relates to working on gas for reward note the words at the begining of paragraph 3 "Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2)"
"without prejudice" means in legal terms that what you say can't be used against you if the dispute turns into court proceedings.this statement protects the government from libel, its basically saying you have to be a RGI to work on gas for profit do not try to use the excuse that the law says that you have to be only competent ( the general term)


(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.
4) The requirements of paragraph (3) above shall not apply in respect of
(a) the replacement of a hose or regulator on a portable or mobile space heater; or
(b) the replacement of a hose connecting a re-fillable cylinder to installation pipework.
etc etc

But TBH its easy to forget that this is a DIY forum as there is a lot of trademen that get on here and there are two sides to this debate and both are correct to a certain extent but if you are a basic diyer and are thinking of fitting your own boiler unless you have a certain amount of experience then don't it would be really stupid I know I said I fitted my own but when I started as an (electrical) apprentice 31 yrs ago my best mate started as a (plumbing and heating) apprentice the same time we worked together doing guvvys for years and learned of each other' I still love to learn that's just me I have a thirst for knowledge but I also have access to flue analyzer kits,drop testers,multimeters etc all of which are required, do you? if not listen to agile etc its basicallyreally good advice do not diy gas or anything with a flue
 
MATT . Your banging your head against a brick wall, both corgi and gassafe have said what you have.

I will ask all the the others has a householder ever been prosecuted for working in there OWN house that they LIVE in....

I and mates have probably attended more scary DIY incidents than all of you put together some of it needing evacuations etc etc and no one was ever prosecuted ,have prosecuted so called corgi guys who did the same though.


THE one that really makes me laugh is ACS makes people compotent get real.
 
I appreciate this applies only to installation but it is a legal requirement to notify installations. Lets be honest, how many diyers work would pass inspection? Only rgi's can self certify, i wonder in any local BI's have ever been asked to go and inspect an installation the home owner says was installed by them and they are not ACS qualified........i have seen an inspector refuse to sign off another guy's work because he couldn't supply a gas safety cert......he worked for CHN but didn't have his own ticket......inspector said he wasn't qualified to carry out the checks himself so wouldn't write out the building cert in case it came back to bite him.....
 

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