Court fees - why?

[Donkmeister]

When someone is issued a speeding ticket, I understand that they have the right to contest it in court. But, if you contest it then you must go to court, and you are agreeing to pay the costs if you lose.

If someone honestly believes they have been wronged, why should they find themselves impoverished simply because they wanted the opportunity to give their view on the matter? Looking at the websites devoted to contesting speeding tickets, it appears £600 is a typical court fee. Quite steep when weighed against taking the £60 fixed penalty, even if you know you're in the right. You can't guarantee the court will agree with you.

Here's how I got onto worrying about it - I was driving along the M3 this morning. Whilst going through one of the many SPECS-monitored roadworks, I passed a proper national speed limit derestrictor. Along with the cars around me, I accelerated up to 70 until I saw another "50" sign much further down the road. So, along with the other cars I slowed to 40 to try and bring the average down but due to the distances it's entirely possible I will have averaged 60mph between two cameras.

So, if I get a nice letter through my door inviting me to 3 points and £60, simply saying "No, I complied with the posted speed limits" could cost me £600, plus the magistrate is at freedom to up the fine if he so wishes!!!

I also understand that if you get put in court for *criminal* charges then you are NOT liable for court costs and you get a free lawyer because you have no alternative but to stand trial (no £60 and slapped wrist option).

So, how does one seek justice without missing next month's mortgage payment?

(By the bye, if you want entertaining reading try some of these forums about contesting speeding fines. Some of these d***heads want to know the easy way to get off a charge of 100mph down the high-street whilst giving the v-sign to a group of magistrates and bumming a nun. I exaggerate, of course. Slightly.)

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

£600 is it that much
Well it's plain to see, it's so you don't harbour any thoughts of contesting the charge, £600 and a day of work without pay, and the fee for a solicitor, no brainer.
Unless you are at your limit on points and the licence is needed for employment reasons that is.

 

[ColJack]

if you were still in the roadworks then you stick to the speed limit set when you enter until you pass the sign that says the roadworks end..
you ignore all other speed limit signs.
so despite your claim, you would be in the wrong..

 

[Diyisfun]

You may find, that all other 'invalid' signs MUST be covered.
Just a guess

 

[ColJack]

nope..

highway code says you MUST stick to any temporary speed restrictions..

I mean it doesn't take a genius to see that there are still cones or restricted lanes and such, so the safety speed limit is still in force..

 

[Donkmeister]

Well, I'll know in a couple of weeks whether or not I've incurred the wrath of the speed camera peeps... I think I might have been in Wiltshire, and I know they pretty much tar-and-feather speeders round Salisbury! I've never had a speeding ticket before in my 12 years of driving, but as my insurance is £640 I'd imagine it will be £60 fine, plus an extra £100 or so a year on my insurance for 3 years... So, real cost £360. Still cheaper than £600, so I'll probably stop being so crimethinkful and be a doubleplusgood citizen.

ColJack - As to the Highway Code - I'm not doubting your knowledge of the Highway Code, but all I can find on the direct.gov site are rules stating you must not exceed posted speed limits and restrictions (rather obvious!). Are you aware of some rules similar to the "street lamps mean 30mph" rule pertaining to roadworks? I passed a derestriction sign, identical to the "end-of-roadworks" derestriction signs one sees at the end of motorway roadworks - can this be interpreted in any other way? Or is there a new code that states "SPECS gantries indicate the presence of a reduced limit and therefore you should not accelerate until you're sure you're well past the last one"

 

[dextrous]

What you have also to take into consideration is what definition of "average" they may wish to apply. For example, it is entirely possible for someone to travel at 150mph for all but the last yard, and then pull over and have a cuppa and a spot of light lunch until the clock "permits" you to complete the journey. Although your "mean" average comes out to 49.5, in reality both your "modal" and "median" averages have been recorded as 150 by interim cameras.

Thus, I fear, you may not have a leg to stand on.

 

[conny]

As Col says, if you are still in an area with cones/bollards you have to drive at the lower speed until the 'calming measures' are no longer there. If you see a 'Roadworks End' sign 400 yards up the road you must not increase your speed to the normal limit until you have PASSED the sign.

Going slightly 'off topic' for a mo.
What annoys me is when you see a sign saying 'Roadworks 1 mile Ahead' and indicating one lane is closed someone straddles the white line to prevent someone else getting past them. The roadworks are a mile away FFS! Then when you get to the filter section those in the 'open' lane don't allow anyone into 'their' lane! If everyone used the 'zipper' method, i.e. one car from open lane followed by one car from closing lane, then traffic would move much smoother and therefore faster. Its a proven fact and I believe is standard practice on the continent.

(Sorry, don't mean to hijack.)

 

[Donkmeister]

As Col says, if you are still in an area with cones/bollards you have to drive at the lower speed until the 'calming measures' are no longer there. If you see a 'Roadworks End' sign 400 yards up the road you must not increase your speed to the normal limit until you have PASSED the sign.

You know, I'm racking my brain but on the M25, M3 and A1(M) roadworks, I don't recall ever seeing a "Roadworks End" sign, just a derestrictor.

Going slightly 'off topic' for a mo.
What annoys me is when you see a sign saying 'Roadworks 1 mile Ahead' and indicating one lane is closed someone straddles the white line to prevent someone else getting past them. The roadworks are a mile away FFS! Then when you get to the filter section those in the 'open' lane don't allow anyone into 'their' lane! If everyone used the 'zipper' method, i.e. one car from open lane followed by one car from closing lane, then traffic would move much smoother and therefore faster. Its a proven fact and I believe is standard practice on the continent.

(Sorry, don't mean to hijack.)

My experience of European driving is:

Italy - drive as if you are a kamikaze on a go-kart track and you will do fine...
Germany - obey every rule, don't drive like a Frenchman or they'll think you're a pansy.
France - don't drive like a German or they'll think you're a pansy.
Spain - Drive slow, drive fast, it's OK.
Portugal - Drive Spanish, but use the hardshoulder if it gets you home quicker.
Greece - DIE MOPED RIDER, DIEEEEEE!!!!!

But, I agree that in general the pushiness seems to disappear where there is an organised roadworks - the only situation known to man where British people are rubbish at queuing.

 

[ColJack]

Going slightly 'off topic' for a mo.
What annoys me is when you see a sign saying 'Roadworks 1 mile Ahead' and indicating one lane is closed someone straddles the white line to prevent someone else getting past them. The roadworks are a mile away FFS! Then when you get to the filter section those in the 'open' lane don't allow anyone into 'their' lane! If everyone used the 'zipper' method, i.e. one car from open lane followed by one car from closing lane, then traffic would move much smoother and therefore faster. Its a proven fact and I believe is standard practice on the continent.

(Sorry, don't mean to hijack.)

and what anoys me are the self important pricks who think that it's their god given right to be let into my lane when they've had a mile or more to find a gap in the open lane and to vacate the lane that is coming to an end..
you've had plenty of warning so why stay in the closing lane until the cones force you over?
if you indicate to pull in when you see the first warning signs then I'm happy to let you, but if it's almost to the cones then you can bloody well wait..

 

[Rico99]

Col,

It's not about feeling we have a "GOD GIVEN" right to stay in the closing lane.

Its not shut until the cones close it off, we have every right to stay in that lane until it is closed.

If you choose to sit in a line off traffic for miles, just because the lane is closing, then thats your choice to extend your journey. Just as its mine to stay in clear lane.

As previously stated, its much more efficient and creates shorter queues if the "zipper" method is used. Shorter queues less waiting time, fewer frustrated drivers.

Rico


ps, how did the interview go

 

[ColJack]

no it's not..
you don't have ANY right to stay in the closing lane if it happens to be either of the outer 2 lanes.. they are overtaking lanes and you should pull back in when it's safe to do so.. which is immediately there is a gap
I suppose that you feel that drivers in lane 1 should move into lane 2 or alter their speed to allow you to join the motorway on a slip road?

edit: actually I'll rephrase that first line..
you have every right to stay in the closing lane, you just don't have any right to expect to be let in on demand when the cones do close it off..
I have every right to stay at a suitable distance from the car in front and maintain that gap no matter what..

 

[Rico99]

Think again Col, just looking at the following which is taken directly from the Highway Code.

Rule 134 "You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, eg. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed."

Rico

 

[ColJack]

Think again Col, just looking at the following which is taken directly from the Highway Code.

Rule 134 "You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, eg. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed."

Rico

we can all highlite parts that support our argument..

you're quite happy to ignore the roadsigns saying lane closed until the last second, but I bet that you start to speed up from 30 just as soon as you see a national speed limit sign on the horizon..

 

[Rico99]

Col,

The section you high lighted still supports my acitons, the signs quite clearly state "Lanes Closed in XX miles", that is when you have to leave that lane, there is nothing to state you have to change lane the second you see the sign.

And I only change speeds once past the sign indicating the change is speed limit

Rico