Above the law...

[nickso]

So if I went to a football match and was caught on CCTV barging into and knocking over a rival fan who was walking away with his hands in his pockets who died of internal bleeding within minutes then no charges would be brought?
Yeah sure mate.

not often i agree with this **** but he is right. even if the fan he knocked over was in his face calling him a **** for 20 mins or whatever joe would at least get his day/2months in court, even if it ended up being the usual waste of money further facts may have come to light.

the real problem seems to be the IPCC won't engage the public in a fair manner. it seems the views on here are either you don't like police in general and think they are all murderers or you are actually not that bothered and think that it's a borderline case that's been covered up in the best of british traditions.....poorly.

 

[ellal]

the real problem seems to be the IPCC won't engage the public in a fair manner.

Not so this time it appears. Despite their reputation for not exactly being impartial, they were pushing for a manslaughter prosecution in this case apparently.

So maybe the problem is below, and I wonder if it is a 'coincidence'

The CPS lawyer who made the decision was the same one who decided no officer should face charges for the shooting dead of Jean Charles de Menezes by police who mistook him for a terrorist.

That's the f*cker who should be 'named and shamed' along with PC Simon Harwood
(that's the thug who removed his id number, hid his face with a scarf, and according to the CPS themselves ASSAULTED Tomlinson...

 

[EddieM]

All the circumstantial nonsense of whether he had remonstrated previously with the police, whether or not he was a heavy drinker are completely irrelevant, he was pushed to the ground in a completely unprovoked incident. I'm sure the policeman in question did not intend to hurt him particularly, but again that's not the point, the law is the law, he caused the death of an innocent man by his actions, which is clearly manslaughter.

Put it this way if I was to shout boo! to an old lady with a dicky heart who subsequently died, how much trouble do you reckon I'd get into?

The IPCC are a joke why not just drop the I

 

[merlin50]

I always keep within the law but I have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. threatened by the police, saying myself and my wife would have our lege broken if we did not move. we moved but one unlucky girl arrived as we left and was pushed through a shop window. I know see police as bad as the crooks, as i see it they have all crawled out of the same swamp.
if you push a girl into a window and she is badly cut its GBH the same as pushing a man with his hands in his pockets.
it appears that this is ok for pigs but not for us, if i ever see a police man or woman getting a good kicking I will look the other way.
and before you say one day I will need them, I have needed them in the past but have been no help.

 

[joe-90]

I always keep within the law but I have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. threatened by the police, saying myself and my wife would have our lege broken if we did not move. we moved but one unlucky girl arrived as we left and was pushed through a shop window.

You've been to the Harrod's sale then?

 

[imamartian]

So if I went to a football match and was caught on CCTV barging into and knocking over a rival fan who was walking away with his hands in his pockets who died of internal bleeding within minutes then no charges would be brought?
Yeah sure mate.

not often i agree with this **** but he is right. even if the fan he knocked over was in his face calling him a **** for 20 mins or whatever joe would at least get his day/2months in court, even if it ended up being the usual waste of money further facts may have come to light.

the real problem seems to be the IPCC won't engage the public in a fair manner. it seems the views on here are either you don't like police in general and think they are all murderers or you are actually not that bothered and think that it's a borderline case that's been covered up in the best of british traditions.....poorly.

but you're missing the point... you and the other football fan have equal rights in the street... whereas you and the copper don't - it's very simple!!
If the copper tells you to leave the area, you leave immediately. It's the law FFS!!! and a push is reasonable force, whether you like it or not....

 

[imamartian]

I always keep within the law but I have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. threatened by the police, saying myself and my wife would have our lege broken if we did not move. we moved but one unlucky girl arrived as we left and was pushed through a shop window. I know see police as bad as the crooks, as i see it they have all crawled out of the same swamp.
if you push a girl into a window and she is badly cut its GBH the same as pushing a man with his hands in his pockets.
it appears that this is ok for pigs but not for us, if i ever see a police man or woman getting a good kicking I will look the other way.
and before you say one day I will need them, I have needed them in the past but have been no help.

absolute anti-establishmentarianism gone mad..... what you gonna do if you become the victim of a serious crime? deal with it yourself? bypass the police and go straight to the army? bunkum.
i have said before there are some bad coppers, but there are far more good ones....

you look at the footage of the recent riots in Greece... a line of police, and thousands of (peaceful??????) protestors marching towards them... the copper have shields, and the (peaceful??????) protestors have sticks... the protesting scum reach the police and attack them with their sticks....the police simply try to hold their line... and dozens of idiots with video cameras video the carnage waiting for one copper to make a mistake....

the odd copper needs locking up, i agree... but the vast majority add more value to society than most of us...

 

[ellal]

If the copper tells you to leave the area, you leave immediately. It's the law FFS!!! and a push is reasonable force, whether you like it or not...

You really don't have a clue about the law do you...

You asked earlier..

"That copper did nowt wrong !!!!!! anyone care to prove me wrong !!"

Well you've been shown the evidence it wasn't just that push, and proved wrong since an assault was admitted - so you are either pig ignorant or pathetically obtuse...

Mind you, at least you're consistent...

Oh, and I bet you'd be the first to cry 'foul' if plod even did as much as say 'Boo!' in your general direction...

after you had of course sh*t your pants!

 

[imamartian]

oh so clever ellal... you avoid the points you can't answer..bang on up a blind alley, and chuck in a few insults, and think you're so ***king great..

Well people like you make me sick!

You can't micromanage human civilisation... you can't analyse every single second of everyone's life....you need a broad set of rules to live by, and we must all abide by that or else you're an outlaw.. so it's about accepting a few things, about give as well as take.... but you seem to be the sort who's always on the take... the sort who know's how to wangle the rules a bit... and if gets in bother, looks for a loophole?

and also you're one of the breed of spoilt brats who revolt against authority... and love to chuck a spanner in things...

you might not have made them... but comments like "all coppers are scum", and "coppers are worse than criminals".... are just ridiculous and childish..

Ellal lets understand you... are you an anarchist? were you a spoilt child?
do you have mental problems?

 

[daneski88]

Martian, I don't know why you bother with some people on here - they're just attention seekers with nothing of real value to contribute, yet alone something that stands up to any scrutiny.

 

[imamartian]

Martian, I don't know why you bother with some people on here - they're just attention seekers with nothing of real value to contribute, yet alone something that stands up to any scrutiny.

well he didn't reply, maybe i bored them to sleep?!!

 

[Mickymoody]

There was, for once, interesting debate regarding this in the commons; and the MP's on both sides seemed to agree with public consensus, he was obviously attacked, and had it been the other way round, there would be anarcy. And also the person that did the 3rd autopsy was incompetent, so should he be the fall guy, as he has made serious errors before..

The Postmortem also revealed baton strikes, this was not filmed. Why was he struck? Did he antagonise police, upto the time of him being filmed? If I'm walking home from the match, the police ARE quite aggressive, and intimidating; if I'm walking home from work, and get caught up in this 'kettling', then yes I will want to get out, yes I will be afraid, and aggressive. Would I attack police? In that fight or flight, maybe?

Also the policeman involved had been forced to retire from the police prior to this incident, leaving under a 'dark cloud' (unspecified), but got back into police, by being a clerk, then being upgraded, effectively, joining by the 'back door'.

The cop acted illegally by removing their identity stripes.

But, to me, at the time, without retrospect, there ISN'T enough evidence to bring a conviction, yes he was filmed walking away from a cop, and being pushed, but what happened in the 10 minutes before that, that wasn't filmed? and as the decision has been made, it's quite hard to bring a conviction now. Very convenient at the time, as things unfold.

Seeing things now, in the cold light of the day, then there are obvious failures, all along the line, and the worst one is; this sets a precedent for ANY copper to use violence against a citizen, and get away with it scot free.

As things stand, he should be prosecuted. But at the time, not enough evidence to bring a trial.

I think it was Newsnight BBC2 around 11pm, I suggest you watch it.

 

[yaleguy3]

This officer was known to be over aggressive hence his original dismissal.
The person who put this clod on riot duty that day should be punished as well.
he should have been kept away from the riots and..

...well I don't know I can't think of any area of policing where an overly aggressive officer would be useful not even stopping cars for speeding...
Or maybe an overly aggressive officer could be viewed as useful on side in a riot?

 

[ellal]

well he didn't reply, maybe i bored them to sleep?!!

You actually think your rants are that important?...

Mind you, at least you & daneski got a bit of time to stage a 'unity of idiots'...

'tis so easy to show you up for what you are - I hear better reasoning from an eight year old...


But for those interested in developments (as opposed to showing ignorance)...

G20 attack officer faces disciplinary action

So what's the betting he 'retires on medical grounds' as before?...

 

[kevplumb]

odds on i would have thought