Wikileaks 'insurance' file...

[ellal]

I reckon if World War Three was to start tomorrow, Ellal would be the perfect candidate for recruitment as an enemy spy.(that's if he's not already one) If not then conscientious objector springs to mind.

You defend terrorism , by turning the argument around , so the terrorists are the victims. You mention innocent people, killed by roadside bombs. (it's not often on the news we here of innocent people killed by IED's It's usually soldiers doing their jobs). You conveniently forget that the majority of Afghanistan people don't want the Taliban in control, but focus on our soldiers and portray them as the terrorists.

As usual you miss the point completely....I defend no-one - I simply say that both sides commit acts of terrorism! If you can't understand that, then you are part of the problem!

it's not often on the news we here of innocent people killed by IED's

Yeah, but thousands of innocent people have been killed by drone attacks and so-called smart bombs..

wedding parties are I believe a speciality target..

 

[ellal]

Presumably when Wikileaks gets taken down, due to the latest leak about American government stuff slagging other nations off, and free speech on the internet is restricted, they will launch a virus/ghost site?

Wikileaks 'hacked ahead of secret US document release'

But I thought the yanks were a bastion of free speech...

 

[LastMagicBean]

I simply say that both sides commit acts of terrorism

Absolute boll*cks.

Ridiculous thing to say.

 

[joinerjohn]

As usual, you miss the point completely Ellal. Your diatribes on here only attack our way of life here in the west, our troops, doing a difficult job, our police trying to maintain law and order. You defend the right of students to protest and cause mayhem/destruction of property, you defend the right of militant Muslims to protest and hold up insulting placards (aimed at causing distress/hatred). You defend militant Muslims desecrating a symbol of remembrance, almost as though it was a joke.

You mention innocent civilians , wedding parties etc. The very groups that these terrorists do their utmost to hide amongst. Using others as a human shield. I don't see you arguing that the Taliban etc should come out into the open and try fighting a fair fight. (they'd rather hide amongst civilians though, so no need to say anything there)


You seem hellbent on defending the indefensible.
Is it part of your psyche to do this?
Or perhaps you take pleasure in defending these groups of people who would seek to destroy us . (all in the name of freedom of speech). Something I might add , that these groups of people wouldn't have in their own country of origin.

 

[ellal]

Or perhaps you take pleasure in defending these groups of people who would seek to destroy us .

What a simplistic view you have of the world...

The west is right and everyone else is wrong!

Ever thought that we are as much of the problem as those who think the opposite?

Of course you don't, because you are unable to look at both sides of the coin!

You defend the right of students to protest. You seem hellbent on defending the indefensible.

How sad that having lumped students with terrorists together in this thread you actually believe that students shouldn't have a right to protest...

So what makes you any better than those who you say want to destroy 'our way of life'...

 

[joinerjohn]

Sad indeed to have lumped students in with another minority group, who seem to be exercising freedom of speech. No matter.

I never once said the West was right and everyone else was wrong.
I'm unable to look at things from the other side of the coin. I hold my hand up to that, but equally these minority groups you defend , are just as guilty. Can they, or have they tried to look at things from anyone else's perspective? Hmmm. I wonder if Islam is as willing to embrace another country's religious beliefs in the way that we have in this country. (I don't think so do you?). I see little evidence of Muslims trying to integrate into our society, although I do see plenty of evidence of them living off benefits. (Surely a western thing. I don't know of any Muslim country that has a benefits system quite like ours)

Freedom of speech, is just that. It's not freedom to insult, destroy whatever, yet these groups have chosen to insult and destroy. Surely that's against the law??
They have the right to protest peacefully. What they don't have is the right to cause thousands of pounds worth of damage to buildings, offices, streets etc. They neither have the right to insult our intelligence with placards declaring " Islam will dominate the West.".
Let's just try that slightly differently shall we? Stand on Trafalgar Square holding a placard up saying " The West will destroy Islam." Let's see how long before you are arrested. ,, But hold a placard up saying"Islam will dominate the West." and you'll be alright jack.

Anyways,,, back to the original context of the thread,,, I do feel strongly that some things remain secret from the public domain.

 

[ellal]

I never once said the West was right and everyone else was wrong.
I'm unable to look at things from the other side of the coin. I hold my hand up to that, but equally these minority groups you defend , are just as guilty.

Which is why i said.....

I defend no-one - I simply say that both sides commit acts of terrorism!

Sad indeed to have lumped students in with another minority group, who seem to be exercising freedom of speech. No matter.

'No matter' you say?...You are beginning (?) to sound like the 'enemy'!

Anyways,,, back to the original context of the thread,,, I do feel strongly that some things remain secret from the public domain.

You, like many, seem to have a problem differentiating between secret and private!

 

[joinerjohn]

Which is why i said.....

I defend no-one - I simply say that both sides commit acts of terrorism!

You, like many, seem to have a problem differentiating between secret and private!

You have defended the sort of things I mentioned in previous posts (although you are careful to disguise this as defending something else. Either freedom of speech or the right to protest etc).

Is there a large difference between secret and private?
If I tell someone something in private and they don't say a word to anyone, does that make it a secret?

 

[LastMagicBean]

If I tell someone something in private and they don't say a word to anyone, does that make it a secret?

You're safe in the confessional box, if you admit to sleeping with the vicars wife. ...........

 

[joinerjohn]

Sadly the choirboys ain't safe in the confessional box.

 

[tommyl18]

unfortunatley its a lose lose sitaution your never going to please everybody when you invade places like iraq and afghanistan but you cant just sit there and let people get away with what happened on 9/11 with the likes of bin laden. By no means is it good that our boys and girls are in these places when most of them dont want to be there, but i do honestly believe saddam hussain was a rotten egg and iraq is a better place wihtout him there!!

 

[^woody^]

but i do honestly believe saddam hussain was a rotten egg and iraq is a better place wihtout him there!!

And yet Saddam was our "friend" a few years previously

Also, what about all the rotten eggs in Africa and the mass murder and suppression of the people in various countries

Currently, the Islamic terrorists are winning on many levels and the free world is not so free.

We wont solve the problem by being in Afghanistan or any country. If we can't talk to these terrorists and negotiate, then we (the West) needs to stop poking the hornets nest and pull back from things which are causing such resentment to the Muslim radicals

We can come to an understanding based on containment and not interference

 

[joinerjohn]

Fine sentiments Woody, but what do we do once we have pulled out of Afghanistan and the radical Muslims continue the way they have in this country? Do we live and let live? or take a hard line against them on our own soil?
According to WikiLeaks, even the Arabs wanted the US to invade Iran. I reckon the US should have told the Arabs to get on with it.

 

[^woody^]

I suspect that the Muslim radicals, or more specifically those mullahs or whatever who pull the strings, have enough sense to realise that whilst conquering the infidel west and spreading Islam to the whole world is laudable, in practical terms it is not going to happen.

On that basis if the west stops interfering in the Muslim world, then the Muslims stop interfering in the western world.

Of course there will still be the middle east issue and localised disagreements, but their actual war on the west will be fruitless and so the radicals will just revert to rhetoric - just as it was until about 10 years ago

Yes Iran will need to be dealt with and there will be conflict between extreme Arab nations and Israel, but it wont be at the threat levels we have today because the hatred and mentality of the Jihadist will be tempered by more sensible direction of their leaders. All the wannabe Jihadists in the various communities in the western world will not be so eager to blow us up because by and large the reasons for them wanting to do this will have been removed

The west can not create an artificial democracy in countries where the people do not know what one is. The west can not defeat all the Muslim terrorists in a war. The logical way, is some form of negotiation, but we can't negotiate with al-Qaeda or the other factional groups. They will have to be tolerated and allowed to live in their various countries under their way of life.

It will be the old "You leave me alone and I will leave you alone" scenario. Once those crackpots get power in their little countries, then you can be sure that they will want to keep it. So, built into this little bit of mutual recognition and end to this war, would be the threat of the West returning to take it all away again.

So I think that we should pull out, and let them get on with it. And then if necessary we can wave our finger at them (those in power) occasionally to remind them to stay calm and be able to keep the good lives that we have let them have

There will always be dictatorships and unsavoury governments. We have to accept that and tolerate it

 

[Mickymoody]

This thread has descended into a post, that ultimately refers someone to being like Hitler. So there, I said it! You know that wedding next year April 29th, was also the date that Hitler married Eva Braun? (doesn't she have a range or irons for sale??) Lighten up guys! It's not about the illegal wars, it's about Obama saying Brown is a one eyed loch ness monster isn't it?