Downlighter questions

[kazzab]

Hope someone can give some advice on this

We are looking to fit down lighters in our bathroom and also in the bedroom, so looking around but am a bit confused as some state part b compliant and others state tested to bs476 part 22, what is the difference

Was going to fit fire hoods on the ones in our bedroom as we have access to loft but in the bathroom we have no access ( flat roof extension) so was going to put fire rated ones in there

So questions are should we go with fire rated everywhere ? Do we need transformers ? And the difference with part b and bs476 part 22

Many thanks

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

oh dear. You may find that some people here will not like your suggestion too much.

By default, i always use fire rated d/ls whether necessary or not.
Generally, the fire rated type will also be compliant with the various bits relevant building regs. (thinks parts, B, C and E).

No need for transformers. Some say that the light from a MR16 (a 12v, transformer fed lamp) is better than a GU10 (almost identical, but 240v, no transfomer), my opinion is that there isn't much difference in the light output, but with GU10 and no transformer, there is less to pay for, install and possibly fail

 

[riveralt]

Hope someone can give some advice on this

We are looking to fit down lighters in our bathroom and also in the bedroom, so looking around but am a bit confused as some state part b compliant and others state tested to bs476 part 22, what is the difference

Was going to fit fire hoods on the ones in our bedroom as we have access to loft but in the bathroom we have no access ( flat roof extension) so was going to put fire rated ones in there

So questions are should we go with fire rated everywhere ? Do we need transformers ? And the difference with part b and bs476 part 22

Many thanks

You problem with the bathroom will be two fold - firstly there will notification issues to your Local Authority Building Control. Secondly downlighters, even fire rated ones, require space around and above them to operate correctly.
For example I am fitting a couple of fire and IP65 rated downlighters this weekend for a customer in his bathroom as replacements for what is already in place. The new downlights are 135mm high but the fitting instructions require an additional 100mm above and around the luminaire. They do make smaller ones but it is something you need to think about.

For me fire rated downlights everywhere and no difference between the 12v and the 230v lights except the price and the transformer is something else to go wrong.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Generally, the fire rated type will also be compliant with the various bits relevant building regs. (thinks parts, B, C and E).

There is no reason why they should be.

Fire rated downlighters contain an intumescent component which expands when there's a fire to block the path through the light. When there is no fire and therefore when that component has not expanded, there is nothing which will necessarily stop air movement or sound transmission.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Was going to fit fire hoods on the ones in our bedroom as we have access to loft

Firehoods will not be suitable.

You need a sealed enclosure around each light which is large enough to provide the clearance the lights need, and strong enough to support the insulation which you have to put over it. It needs to be sealed, and sealed to the ceiling, to stop air movement in and out of the loft.

• http://www.nhbc.co.uk/NHBCPublicati...ical/StandardsExtra/filedownload,16553,en.pdf
  
  
• Pre-formed cap to seal downlights: http://www.aico.co.uk/downlights-in-loft-space-what-to-fit.html (It's NOT a firehood....)
  
  
• IET article on installing downlighters safely

in the bathroom we have no access ( flat roof extension) so was going to put fire rated ones in there

There is simply no way to install downlighters in a roof like that which complies with the Building Regulations.

You will end up breaching Part L, and Part C - and the latter could lead to serious structural damage. In the bathroom you're required to get Building Regulations approval before you start, so you'll either have to add a 3rd contravention to the list by not doing that, or be refused permission by Building Control.


Also - have you planned how many lights you'll need for these rooms? If so, does it seem like a lot when compared to the number you currently have?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Your bathroom ceiling is a flat roof.
There will be two issues (to add to the ones highlighted above)

1. What is the clearance above the ceiling. For most downlights the makers state 110mm+. Most flat roofs do not have that space as the roof timbers only have to support the flat roof, not a load-bearing floor.

2. Your bathroom ceiling will be crammed full of insulation. That keeps the heat in your bathroom. You would have to clear an area about 100mm diameter round your downlights, so that will stuff any heat insulation properties and you'll have a cold bathroom.

Not the best plan IMO.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Generally, the fire rated type will also be compliant with the various bits relevant building regs. (thinks parts, B, C and E).

There is no reason why they should be.

Fire rated downlighters contain an intumescent component which expands when there's a fire to block the path through the light. When there is no fire and therefore when that component has not expanded, there is nothing which will necessarily stop air movement or sound transmission.

Agreed, they might not be, but i think they easily can be (thinks JCC fireguard as an example)

 

[riveralt]

Generally, the fire rated type will also be compliant with the various bits relevant building regs. (thinks parts, B, C and E).

There is no reason why they should be.

Seems to be an increasing trend to incorporate Parts B, C and E in downlights now.... by way of example fitting these at the weekend.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/robus-fix...ire-rated-downlight-polished-chrome-12v/73468

 

[17thman]

for gods sake man, drill a careful whole through the bathroom celing and then poke an insulated rod up there and then see how much room you have goto in terms of height. maybe 100mm or 150mm at the most, then look at the fitting you have and you will have now way of complying with the manufacturers instructions or the building regulations.

 

[kazzab]

Thanks everyone We have decided not to attempt putting down lighters in the bathroom following all the info posted

But do still want to put them in the bedroom so will look at the covers as suggested

Thanks again