Yale 6400 signal loss?.

[Exprienced]

A neighbours sensors would never set off your alarm.

WRONG if the sensor started transmitting continuously due to fault or a non compliant design then the siren's jamming detection would be triggered and the alarm would sound. ( unless tamper was disabled ). This may be connected with the reason sensors go to sleep after reporting motion detected. If they transmitted continuous reports then sirens in the area would go into tamper ( jamming ) alarm state.

EH!!!

But the Yale is a compliant design!!! you are now talking about a totally seperate issue which is now aparently a malfunctioning pir transmitter.

The sensors go to sleep to save battery life not to prevent jamming issues..

Bernard you are an intelligent guy but you lose all reason when talking about Yale alarms.

BTW you don't disable the tamper system to prevent jamming false alarms you disable the jamming detection response.


What do you want to discuss next as a hypothetical alarm failing. How about the biggest of all wired or wireless,

Forgetting to set the alarm in the first place!!!

Keep going Bernard with your obsession , I'm pretty sure you have trolled enough now to get yet another thread locked...you are a bit of an obsessive pain in the ass.

Why are you bleating on about your pet subject of potential jamming or blocking issues in this thread when the original problem had never mentioned the external siren going off or the control panel logging sensors as out of order?

 

[bernardgreen]

But the Yale is a compliant design!!!

Yes it is, but if the people next door buy something that is none compliant then Yale and all other wireless based systems will be compromised.

Why are you bleating on about your pet subject of potential jamming or blocking issues

Because there are people who sell, promote and install wireless based systems, without warning their customer of the problems that do arise when the system relies on one way wireless on a licence exempt frequency. It can be an alarm, a baby monitor, home "automation", central heating thermostat or one of many other many applications where wireless is sold either as "the most modern method" or as an easy, often cheap, way to avoid the work of installing wires.

 

[JohnD]

It would be really nice to see some examples of problems on Yale alarm systems that were proved to be due to interference from another wireless device in a neighbours house.

However I fear we will continue to have nothing but hypothetical cases, including the highly improbable one that a neighbour might have a non-compliant non-Yale device which happened to generate a signal with a Yale id that happened to be the same as an actual Yale device that the householder had learnt in to his own system, or generated a jamming signal that was frequent and long enough to prevent the Yale signal getting through, but simultaneously not frequent and long enough to be detected by the jamming detector.

 

[Planebreaker]

Hello .thanks to your replies they make interesting reading. Just a few more details. Upstairs we have a remote keypad on the wall to the bedroom and last time that the alarm was not triggering I made it upstairs and tried switching off the alarm with the keypad and the signal went straight through no problem atall..Lin fact I have never had an issue with it. On my front door I have thE dc and to the left of the panel I have a pir which faces towards the bottom of the stairs to face towards the back of the house and in turn cover the hall way. They are of equal distance to the panel and now I'm thinking that maybe it could be these that are stopping the signal to the panel so for now I am starting with removing the hall way pir to see what happens over the next week or so. I wonder if you can have too many sensors in a system?

 

[1000000]

Hello .thanks to your replies they make interesting reading. Just a few more details. Upstairs we have a remote keypad on the wall to the bedroom and last time that the alarm was not triggering I made it upstairs and tried switching off the alarm with the keypad and the signal went straight through no problem atall..Lin fact I have never had an issue with it. On my front door I have thE dc and to the left of the panel I have a pir which faces towards the bottom of the stairs to face towards the back of the house and in turn cover the hall way. They are of equal distance to the panel and now I'm thinking that maybe it could be these that are stopping the signal to the panel so for now I am starting with removing the hall way pir to see what happens over the next week or so. I wonder if you can have too many sensors in a system?

not at all you can have up to 20 devices.

I have in fact installed systems with 20 devices being a mix of dc's pirs and keyfobs , all without a problem.
I have even installed 20 separate individual systems on a holiday home estate all next door to each other , again without a single crosstalk or inteference issue.

 

[JohnD]

however, if you have two sensors which are triggered at the same time (for example a PIR pointing at a door which has a sensor on it) then yes, they can interfere with each other. I have not experienced it, but the Yale installation manual warns against it.

As you can take the panel off the wall, you can eaily carry it around the house in case there is some metallic obstacle or electrical device affecting its current position. I reckon that would be a good thing to try for a start. When you find a good place, do a walk test on all sensors.

Occasionally people find a door sensor's signal is affected by being fixed to the frame of a PVC door which has steel reinforcement inside it, so if you have a particular sensor that doesn't seem to be working right, you can dismount the sensor and see if it works better in a different position.

see my post Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:57 pm which is one of the few replies you got that actually made a suggestion to try and help you with your problem.

 

[1000000]

The two sensors sending at the same time is a red herring here. If that was the case then they would not have worked for the three months they did without exactly the same issuem
Also the alarm is not picking up the hall sensor when someone comes downstairs the next day. This would mean the door sensor would be innactive and not transmitting so why then does the signal still not get through?
The solution here is something to do with the control panel enviroment and not the door and hall sensor triggering together.
Try a walk test and see what that reveals

 

[peaps2]

http://www.electronicsteacher.com/electronics-calculator/electrical-harmonics-calculator.php

 

[JohnD]

hey peaps, I think you ought to know that you have accidentally posted a link to an Electrical Harmonics Calculator

 

[bernardgreen]

A Mega welcome to the new guy on the forum

The two sensors sending at the same time is a red herring here. If that was the case then they would not have worked for the three months they did without exactly the same issue

The reaction time of the PIR may have changed to be come the same as the reaction time of the door sensor.

Try a walk test and see what that reveals

It will reveal how the alarm sensors cope with a person walking around. The low power of the transmitters in the sensors ( limited by regulation ) means that a human body between sensor and panel will significantly affect signal propogation. So walk tests should simulate the movents of a heavily built intruder in order to get a realistic idea of how well the sensors can communicate to the panel during a break in.

A thick body in front of the sensor ( break in ) might reduce the radio signal to the level that the panel cannot receive it while a hand waved through the door ( walk test ) will trigger the PIR but have little if any effect on the radio signal. So the system passes the walk test but may not activate during a break in.

[/quote]

 

[peaps2]

hey peaps, I think you ought to know that you have accidentally posted a link to an Electrical Harmonics Calculator

I guess you missed the point...?

 

[bernardgreen]

Bernard you are an intelligent guy but you lose all reason when talking about Yale alarms.

I am not talking about Yale alarms. I am talking about ALL wireless linked systems that operate on Licence Exempt frequencies using one way communications. Yale may be the best designed and manufactured systems but they still have to comply with the requirements of the regulations that relate to the manufacture and use of licence exempt radio frequencies.

Why does a sensor have to go to sleep after sending a message that motion has been detected ? If it transmitted every time it detected motion then it would be [1] likely to block other sensors and [2] possibly contravene the limit on how long a transmitter is allowed to transmit for and [3] it's battery life would be very short.

 

[Planebreaker]

Hello again. Well the saga continues ,I have moved the panel away from any cables and still the problems persist.....this was a bit of an after thought too but remembering back to the first panel , we tried to put the code in to disarm it and the whole panel was frozen,almost as if it had crashed.....then it went blank and set the alarm off and then it came back to life. Now with this econd panel we seem to be at the same sort of time frame and last night the alarm was set off by one of the kids coming down stairs and this time although the alarm did go off the panel would not let me enter the code to switch it off...it just had alarm displayed onit and after about 5 mins it then let me enter the code as though nothing had happened......not good in the early hours.......very odd and very disappointing ....maybe we have had two duff panels.......strange that they haven't shown up till at least 3 months.

 

[JohnD]

The problem you described before was

... every other time that we come into the house the front door contact doesn't put the alarm into countdown , it just does nothing And again I can walk freely around the house. Other times the dc will set the alarm into countdown mode.

You now say

I have moved the panel away from any cables and still the problems persist

do you mean you did

try moving the panel and/or the suspect sensors and see if that helps. ...while you are searching for the best position. Use walk test or the test buttons to tell you if the signal is getting through ...

and if so, what were the results? Did you find a place where the signal consistently got through when you walk tested, and is that where the panel now is?

 

[Wiredup]

I am wondering why a suggestion was removed?
If after two panels fail there must be some sort of interference. In which case talk directly to Yale or change for either a wired system or a Texcom Ricochet system which will bypass the issue.