abu hamsa and cronies sent to america

[peaps]

By the time people end up in prison, they've usually had at least 16 yrs of a chance to take part in society as you point out..

How naive you are

What else can society do to stop this cycle of prison, offending, prison, offending,prison, ad nauseum?
I'll tell you what could be done. Make prisons a really harsh environment, where the screws are all 6ft 6" across the chest. Make it a hard, work based environment,,, No work, no meals. Take away the TV's, pool tables, gyms etc. The harsher the prison, then more reason the cons will have to not re-offend.
But wait,,,,,,,,, Ahhhhhhhhhhh forgot. they have these Human Rights,,, don't they? The same Human Rights, they forgot their victims had.

This has already been tried and it failed, the prison system was smashed, I was there. You want to see what they prison system has to contain, you think there aren't big prisoners out there? Belmarsh is full of them, the sort that will never get out of prison and screws just as big but who know that these people will kill at a blink of an eye. Screws are only human you know and have families, them that treat prisoners like crap have themselves and their families targeted. You care to offer your services? didn't think so.

Peaps, you speak utter tosh. If your daughter got raped, or even murdered, by some crim, your honestly telling me, you'd want him to have the best treatment possible inside?

Ahh we are onto the emotional Daily mail argument. If I caught them I would kill them without blinking but that would be a reaction to the situation. I would be happy with them going to jail and yes treated right while there.

 

[handyman77]

If they had harmed your family your telling me , you'd want them treated right! My hole you would!

 

[peaps]

If they had harmed your family your telling me , you'd want them treated right! My hole you would!

In the cold light of day, yes I would, as long as the sentence met the crime...

But if I woke one night or came home to it happening I would react like many a man would. This type of situation would make anyone's blood boil but in the cold light of day this would change.

 

[Brigadier]

No, laws do not make a society, but society needs rules (in the absence of it's inhabitants being all truly virtuous and beyond reproach).
And while I agree that not everyone has the same opportunities in life - indeed, to engineer it that way may well stifle as many as it benefited - that is not exclusively the case. Greed and laziness are factors too.
Want to drive around in a Vogue? That'll be a grand a month lease, before you've insured it, and put fuel in it. Some work for it, some get it anyway, even though they can't afford it. Some live a sh#t hole to be able to afford it.
Some do cash work, and don't declare it. Some sell drugs. or counterfeit, or thieve.
At what point in an adult life is someone held responsible for their actions, without resort to blaming their upbringing?

 

[peaps]

No, laws do not make a society, but society needs rules (in the absence of it's inhabitants being all truly virtuous and beyond reproach).

Made by them that use the system to keep themselves on top.
Rule makers, rule breakers.

And while I agree that not everyone has the same opportunities in life - indeed, to engineer it that way may well stifle as many as it benefited - that is not exclusively the case. Greed and laziness are factors too.
Want to drive around in a Vogue? That'll be a grand a month lease, before you've insured it, and put fuel in it. Some work for it, some get it anyway, even though they can't afford it. Some live a sh#t hole to be able to afford it.
Some do cash work, and don't declare it. Some sell drugs. or counterfeit, or thieve.
At what point in an adult life is someone held responsible for their actions, without resort to blaming their upbringing?

Yes we don't live in a perfect world, we never will and while there is such a wide gap between them that have and them that have not it will only get worse.

Locking people up and throwing away the key or treating them badly while in prison will not change it.

 

[Micilin]

I'm with peaps on this one.

I think his most salient point is being able to seperate our emotional reactions from a more rounded consideration of cause and effect.

Consider this one. It is not meant to be offensive so I will edit it if needs be.

Should child rapists get the death sentence?

My emotional reaction is yes. And like peaps I have to acknowledge if I were in the situation I may easily take the law into my own hands. I don't know and hopefully never will.

But what would be the result if we had a mandatory death sentence (or life term) for child abduction /rape?

We would have more children killed because the offender has nothing to lose by killing the witness (going to get the same tarriff) and in fact is less likely to get caught.

So while the punishment may fit the crime in an individual case, the net effect would be very detrimental to society as a whole and have the net effect of the COMPLETE OPPOSITE to the intention (ie protecting children)

Likewise, 'time off for good behaviour' and 'privileges' in prison may seem out of kilter with our moral compass in individual cases; but as a whole these measures are necessary to keep order in prisons and give the system a chance of working.

'Throw away the key' - yes it may make sense on an emotional, moral and personal level. With some individuals, it may be the only solution.

But on a practical level ? We need cold reasoning to make laws that work

 

[hereisthetruth]

Prison is far from perfect but it's the solution we have.

I agree with the fact some people are in a hopeless cycle. However they don't all become criminals.

As for life inside. It's human nature. I was in the Army. It's a very regulated society but after 5pm when the training is over or the work is over and you go back to the blocks another set of rules kicks in that mirrors life inside. No Grassing , Bullying , fighting, victimisation and suicides. At least in my time there ie was drug free but now there is another added complication.

This hopeless cycle was created by successive governments giving up on our home industry of manufacturing.

Where are the low skilled jobs now? There aren't any and the ones we have are taken by immigrants either legal or illegal.

 

[JohnD]

Prison is far from perfect but it's the solution we have.

Surely we try lots of other alternatives before, after and during prison?

How often do we read about a woman who's been sent to prison for shoplifting only after her hundredth arrest? Or a youngster who's burgled hundreds of houses and never been locked up? Putting him away might not make him a reformed character, but at least his neighbours will get a break while he's gone.

With people who feel entitled to commit crime due to their opinions, such as some racists, some animal campaigners, and some anti-abortionists, if they are determined never to stop committing crimes, what will reform them?

 

[AronSearle]

Possibly forced relocation for some crimes (in exchange for some time of your sentence) could be trailed.

I wonder how many re-offenders re-offend because they end up back in the same crowd of no hopers such as themselves.

 

[hereisthetruth]

With people who feel entitled to commit crime due to their opinions, such as some racists, some animal campaigners, and some anti-abortionists, if they are determined never to stop committing crimes, what will reform them?

You cannot do anything about them they are the flawed intelligencia who are basically just an akward stubborn childish thorn in the side.

Kyle from the sink estate doesn't decide to be an animal rights activist for example it's only well off kids from priviledged backgrounds who feel inadequate and need a drum to bash.

Going to Jail makes them right on down with the masses...

I wanna sleep with the common people eh Jarvis!

Quite pathetic self indulgence really because the truth is all the legal democratic avenues to change things are there for them the same as everybody else.

The truth is they won't leave this country on an 'if you don't like it , there is the door' basis because they know the abuses elswhere in the world are much much worse and the targets much harder to hit and the repercussions much harder to fight.

I think some western vigilante releasesing dogs from cages outside a restaraunt in Korea might find the local police are more interested in arresting them.

 

[captaincaveman1]

Today the europeon court of human rights rejected his and his cronies final appeal the goverment need to act quick and get them on that plane before his lawyers somehow find another way to stall it.

 

[JOHNBOY42]

Today the europeon court of human rights rejected his and his cronies final appeal the goverment need to act quick and get them on that plane before his lawyers somehow find another way to stall it.

Just looked on the bbc website and it said it could be weeks....no doubt their lawyers will be working through the night...they should be put on a flight tonight and any appeals could be dealt with while in a Usa jail

 

[captaincaveman1]

Today the europeon court of human rights rejected his and his cronies final appeal the goverment need to act quick and get them on that plane before his lawyers somehow find another way to stall it.

Just looked on the bbc website and it said it could be weeks....no doubt their lawyers will be working through the night...they should be put on a flight tonight and any appeals could be dealt with while in a Usa jail

totally agree johnboy why wait?

 

[sooey]

s*d the plane, strap him to a rocket.

 

[peterperfection]

I'd put him on a easyjet flight - with 28'' legroom -- and send him around the world several times.