Worc Bosch took 20 minutes for boiler "service". B

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Hi,

I've had an annual service contract with Worcester Bosch (WB) for 10 years. I've got a Greenstar ZWBR 7-25.

In March 2013 their Service Technician spent no more than 20 minutes inside of my home carrying out a full annual service. My father attended the service, as I was at work. When I found out the duration of his visit I was very angry. This contract costs me the best part of £200 each year. Amongst other things safety checks are meant to be carried out in this service.

The Technician left without issuing a service report, and this has not been received subsequently, despite more than 30 days elapsing since this visit.

I complained to WB, sending my mobile phone records that show the time and phone number of the Technicians call, when he announced he would arrive in "10 minutes". Then the record of my father’s call confirming that the Technician had finished and was outside in his van. I was able to accurately demonstrate to WB that the Technician could not have spent more than 20 minutes in my home.

I do not know why WB did this. My father is elderly and maybe looked like someone who would not notice that an improper service had been carried out.

After submitting the complaint email to WB explaining what had happened I received a phone call from the northern service manager. Nine days had elapsed between the email being sent and the first contact (other than their email receipt), this phone call. I do not think this length of time is acceptable for any complaint, let alone one where clearly an improper service, quite possibly skipping safety checks is the topic.

The Manager agreed that a proper service could not have been carried out in 20 minutes. He said that the Technician concerned was on holiday, but he would be taking up the matter with him upon his return. Apologies were given, and it was agreed that a return visit by another Technician was be made. This time I was assured he would carry out the service correctly. A time of 8am was set on the agreed date.

I waited in my house for the Technician to turn up. By 11am I phoned WB to see why he had not turned up. I was told, that although the visit was shown on their system no Technician had been assigned. Thus no one was going to attend. Why had I not been contacted before the visit to discuss this problem?

I asked for the name of the person next up the hierarchy of service management, this was not given on the basis that the WB employee manning their switchboard didn't know and couldn’t find out.

So I asked if a Technician could be redirected onto my job, given the circumstances. This was refused.

I tried contacting the northern service manager directly (remember he had previously called me using his own mobile, and told me it was ok to phone him if there were any problems) I got his answer phone, he was on holiday.

WB has placed an "urgent" priority on my follow up complaint, which I lodged today.

I will keep updating his thread. I believe this kind of behaviour needs to be publicised so that those interested in using or purchasing from WB can make informed decisions about this company.

I expect WB will eventually provide a correct service. But for me that’s not the point. There are wider implications to what they attempted to do.


I would appreciate any advice you could offer on how to deal with this situation:

1) Has there been an attempt to defraud me?

2) Are they in breach of legislation by consenting to carry out a service with safety checks, then attempting to mislead me when they didn’t actually carry out these checks?
3) Should I seek legal representation at this stage?
4) Is there an industry ombudsman I can turn to?


Regards
Paul
 
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Servicing is a very variable procedure based on the boiler model, age and known issues.

If the histroy of your boiler is known it may only require the vessel to be inflated a litttle, fan pressure taken, flue gas analysis taken and a few other basic safety checks.

However a full service (and the way I do them on these Worcesters) would entail...

Bleed all radiators, drop the pressure and check/inflate expansion vessel, re-presurise system
Replace auto air vent if suspect blocked/leaking
Working pressure taken at meter and boiler
Tightness test of boiler gas valve
Remove fan, burner, heat exchanger access cover, electrodes, condensate trap, condensate syphon
Scrape through/brush and jetwash heat exchanger
Wash out sump (and if necessary remove telescopic flue section for access)
Dis-assemble condensate trap and clean
Wash out and check exit hole in syphon
Check fan impeller and burner for debris
Re-assemble with new trap seals, fan outlet seal, bearing plate, burner seal, hex acc. cover seal, electrodes (inc. seal/sight glass etc.)
Check boiler for any water leaks/faults etc
Check flue and condensate run
Run boiler and adjust check combustion high and low
Check disturbed joints with gas sniffer
Measure and calculate gas consumption
Check boiler for previous stored errors
Check ionisation current
Test flame lockout
Re-test flue gas analysis with case on (to further check flue integrity)
Check other gas appliances (visual)

A typical parts cost would be around £75.00 and it's anything from 2 to 3 hours work :)

Since you are paying for an annual contract it's really up to Worcester what they chose to do. It's probably better financially to do the bare minimum each year and when it breaks down (especially with ignition/combustion problems) then consider a full service.

Boiler manufacturers are no different to other insurance companies...it's money that counts so they will often turn up and do as little as possible.

Read the small print...guarantee it won't tell you what a service means.
 
All that for £75 Gasguru. You can service my boiler anytime. That represents excellent value. :)
 
No it's £75 for parts, then add on 2 to 3 hours labour and travel. Often is ends up as a 1/2 day rate plus parts.

Round here a Worcester service is £175. Now if they do a full service as I do (and I suspect they won't) then they can do the job cheaper than I charge.

You can probably go 5 years between full services, leave more than that and the electrodes will be burnt out/bent and there's a good chance the gaskets will be cooker allowing 1000 degree combustion products to leak into the combustion chamber. Burn marks on the casing near the electrodes is a favorite.
 
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My mistake :oops: Still not bad for a full check like that.
At BG I might have managed 3 a day if not travelling too far.
 
What's disgusting is the way that manufacturers (and in particular Worcester) constantly emphasise how important it is for the public to have their boilers serviced. Then they screw them £75.00 for the parts and make boilers that are the most labour intensive to work on. If they had any morals they would sell a service pack for a tenner ('cos that's more than enough to cover the cost).
 
gasguru,

I've witnessed WB servicing my boiler many times before. They normally take around 45 minutes. In light of what you've posted that seems like a reasonable amount of checks and tests.

This time they've definitely taken short cuts. For the money I'm paying i don't think that is acceptable. Neither does it seem that way to their northern service manager, hence this mornings botched attempt to repeat the service properly.

If they don''t come up with satisfactory resolution I'm going to end the contract after 10 continuous years and go with a good independent.

I can't understand why a company would choose to cancel an arranged visit and not tell me. I waited in three hours this morning, before I telephoned them to find out they'd chosen to cancel my visit.

That is a terrible way to treat a customer.

Apart from anything else, I've already established myself as "Mr Angry" following the 20 minute service complaint, why then, of all customers they had lined up this morning would they choose to drop me in? It as if they like ranting customers and bad publicity.

Regards
Paul
 
op, 20 mins for a service on your boiler can be acceptable if everything is correct and working well (are you having any probs or asked wb to look at anything in particular?)

remove case
check and clean syphon if necessary
check gas pressure at inlet
check gas / air ratio on max and min
check fan pull is correct (so then it doesn t require cleaning)

if the above check out then there is nothing else to do

You don't pay WB £200 a year for your boiler service, your paying for complete cover on all breakdowns!
 
Boilerdoktor,

I had no faults at the time of the visit. But then I didn't for most of the other visits where the Technician worked for about 45 minutes.

You are right the contract is an annual service, plus free parts and labour for repairs.

Do you think a 15yr old Greenstar, with a service each year, is worth keeping on this contract?
 
Boilerdoktor,

I had no faults at the time of the visit. But then I didn't for most of the other visits where the Technician worked for about 45 minutes.

You are right the contract is an annual service, plus free parts and labour for repairs.

Do you think a 15yr old Greenstar, with a service each year, is worth keeping on this contract?

definitely yours is a top boiler but over the age of 10 yrs and all boilers can go wrong and they can be expensive. i wouldn t worry about servicing you'll get your value when it breaks down and the next day they fix it for you. the heat cell on one of them is £500 ish and i change a few
 
No it's £75 for parts, then add on 2 to 3 hours labour and travel. Often is ends up as a 1/2 day rate plus parts.

Round here a Worcester service is £175. Now if they do a full service as I do (and I suspect they won't) then they can do the job cheaper than I charge.

You can probably go 5 years between full services, leave more than that and the electrodes will be burnt out/bent and there's a good chance the gaskets will be cooker allowing 1000 degree combustion products to leak into the combustion chamber. Burn marks on the casing near the electrodes is a favorite.

so let me get this right a full service is £175? wtf ? and if the fan breaks down the following week you'll hit them for another £250? wow, when can i get a weeks borrow on your bently?
 
Boilerdoktor,

okay, your advice is noted. But do WB still sell heat exchangers for this boiler?

In the last few yeas their technician has started dropping hints about parts availability on my ageing boiler and how i might want to save up for a new one.
 
A fan pull test is not a sufficient method to determine whether a full strip down is necessary. It may indicate if the heat exchanger is starting to clog up with debris but it certainly won't tell you if the electrodes are on their last legs, the bearing plates breaking up, the gaskets (especially the top burner and electrode) have deteriorated to the point where gas or combustion products are leaking out or the trap and syphon are full of oxide. The only other manufacturer that claims a pressure test can determine servicing is Keston and their boilers have been hopeless. So forget the pressure test...it's inconclusive. It also doesn't take into account the lenght of flue and the additional resistance so again the results can vary just on the type of installation.

It very doubful the primary heat exchanger is covered under your maintainance scheme. AFAIK the 10 year warranty only kicked in from Jan '07. Of course you pay for a warranty as well but it is up to Worcester to determine what's covered. Read the small print! In common with all current manufacturers the primary hex is a rip-off price around £500 ie. once it fails they want you to buy a new boiler.

There's no way a full service can be carried out with all the checks I've mentioned in 45minutes. Just unloading/loading the tools, paperwork, basic legal safety checks etc can take 20 mins. Manufacturers engineers will always claim such short times but that's simple because various checks are not done. I don't work slow either.

Your boiler was the first generation condensing from Worcester and AFAIK basically a German product (before the Germans started making carp products). It's considerably better than all the Greenstars that followed with rubbish Grundfos plastic parts. All parts still available.

Unfortunately boiler manufacturers and their staff (and ex staff) live in a little bubble where morals don't exist. Worcester spend a fortune advertising how great they are but are quite content to screw over customers as much as anyone else.

I've recently had Worcester out on behalf of a customer to replace an isolating valve (thats a couple of quid part). For that they charged £315 and just hit the leaking valve with a hammer :rolleyes: They did drop it down to a service price of £175. After my intervention this bodged repair was dropped to £85. Of course it started leaking again a few weeks later.

You can either keep paying your premium, take a chance on their "servicing" and hope any future repair is covered or you can find a quality local engineer to do the servicing and repairs. It's not an easy choice given the dross that maskerade as boiler "engineers".
 
A fan pull test is not a sufficient method to determine whether a full strip down is necessary. It may indicate if the heat exchanger is starting to clog up with debris but it certainly won't tell you if the electrodes are on their last legs, the bearing plates breaking up, the gaskets (especially the top burner and electrode) have deteriorated to the point where gas or combustion products are leaking out or the trap and syphon are full of oxide. The only other manufacturer that claims a pressure test can determine servicing is Keston and their boilers have been hopeless. So forget the pressure test...it's inconclusive. It also doesn't take into account the lenght of flue and the additional resistance so again the results can vary just on the type of installation.

It very doubful the primary heat exchanger is covered under your maintainance scheme. AFAIK the 10 year warranty only kicked in from Jan '07. Of course you pay for a warranty as well but it is up to Worcester to determine what's covered. Read the small print! In common with all current manufacturers the primary hex is a rip-off price around £500 ie. once it fails they want you to buy a new boiler.

There's no way a full service can be carried out with all the checks I've mentioned in 45minutes. Just unloading/loading the tools, paperwork, basic legal safety checks etc can take 20 mins. Manufacturers engineers will always claim such short times but that's simple because various checks are not done. I don't work slow either.

Your boiler was the first generation condensing from Worcester and AFAIK basically a German product (before the Germans started making carp products). It's considerably better than all the Greenstars that followed with rubbish Grundfos plastic parts. All parts still available.

Unfortunately boiler manufacturers and their staff (and ex staff) live in a little bubble where morals don't exist. Worcester spend a fortune advertising how great they are but are quite content to screw over customers as much as anyone else.

I've recently had Worcester out on behalf of a customer to replace an isolating valve (thats a couple of quid part). For that they charged £315 and just hit the leaking valve with a hammer :rolleyes: They did drop it down to a service price of £175. After my intervention this bodged repair was dropped to £85. Of course it started leaking again a few weeks later.

You can either keep paying your premium, take a chance on their "servicing" and hope any future repair is covered or you can find a quality local engineer to do the servicing and repairs. It's not an easy choice given the dross that maskerade as boiler "engineers".

sorry guru, no offence pal but i must pick you up on a few points:

1) all parts of the boiler including primary heat exch is covered as on a few occasions i have advised custards to go for their repair.
2) the fan pull test tests the heat exch and not the fan.
3) if you can test ionisation at the boiler why physically remove them for a physical inspection as you are possibly opening a can of worms? if the ionisation is correct why doubt it?
i have spotted other flaws in your post but i don t want a sub argument deflecting from the op's original post so i will leave it there and i'm off this topic pal
 

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