Indeed, but isn't that also true of many of the fuels used to generate electricity?
Kind Regards, John
Electric Car Charger
- Thread starter scarboroughmonkey
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Kind Regards, John
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Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. Fuel costs when running on mains sourced electricity are between 25% & 33% of the cost of running on petrol, depending on road conditions, speed etc.
Plus zero road tax and some immunity to tanker driver strikes.
No. Why do you ask that?
I asked because it is a question to which I did not know the answer (I would think an acceptable reason for asking a question
). As I understand it, a pretty high proportion of our electricity is generated from oil or natural gas. Are they (at least, when bought by electricity producers) not subject to substantial duties and/or taxes (again, a question I'm asking because I don't know the answer - although I rather assumed that the answer was 'yes'!)Kind Regards, John
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A perfectly valid reason.I asked because it is a question to which I did not know the answer (I would think an acceptable reason for asking a question
I do not have the figures apart from -
60% of the price of petrol and derv at the pump is tax.
There is only 5% VAT on domestic gas and electricity prices.
Airlines get their fuel more or less tax-free.
I cannot believe the power stations are charged (Edit - miscalculated) 150% tax on the coal, oil or gas supplied to them.
Perhaps someone knows exactly.
Yes, but VAT is only part of it. There's only 20% VAT on petrol and derv at the pump - but, as you say, 60% or more of what one pays is accounted for by duties/taxes of one sort or another.
I don't have a clue what, if any taxes/duties are paid by electricity producers when they buy fuel (although, as I said before, I rather assumed there would be some government rake-off, perhaps substantial). I'll see what I can discover!
Kind Regards, John
Yes, but we are not charged duty on gas or electricity.
That will be interesting.
Nevertheless I, the consumer, am charged 'only' 5% tax (VAT) on the prices charged by SSE but
I am charged 150% tax (duty plus VAT (including VAT on that duty)) on the prices charged by Esso.
True. However, as I'm sure you understand, what I'm saying is that the absence of any 'taxes' at the point of sale to customers does not necessarily mean that taxes/duties have not been paid by someone (e.g. the electriciy producer) somewhere in the supply chain.
As above - if SSE had paid the equivalent of your 150% on its oil supply then, even though that would be 'invisible'to you (just as are all the other 'overheads' of electricity production), the bottom line for you would be much the same.
As I said, we need some facts, and I'll see if I can find any.
Kind Regards, John
Indeed.
And what if, one day, I decide to pay a visit to someone which involves a 200 mile round trip?
What if I need to hop into the car and, with a short train interlude, drive without refuelling to Paris, or Brussels or Amsterdam etc?
What if I want to go touring in rural France?
They may be great for short journeys not straying far from home, but electric cars which need recharging from a mains supply are nothing more than vanity projects.
Fuel cells? Yes.
IC engines running at maximum efficiency and generating electricity? Yes.
A car which takes 6 hours to on-board enough fuel to travel 40 miles? No.
Quite - which is why I wonder what point you were trying to make. If you were suggesting that an electric car is less energy-efficient than a petrol-engined one, then, depending on the efficiency of electricity generation (which I think is fairly high), the above suggests that you may be wrong.
In terms of environmental considerations, even if electric and petrol/diesel cars were equally energy efficient (overall), then electric ones would presumably be less polluting, since electricity generation is, I think/presume, appreciably less polluting than are vehicles (for the same energy). If, as the above seems to suggest, electric cars are more energy-efficient (overall), then that environmental benefit would increase. There are all sorts of factors to take into account - e.g. electricity is distributed with minimal 'operational pollution', whereas petrol is distributed by polluting road tankers.
Indeed, current electric cars are totally useless as the only car for the great majority of people.
However, I think that we should be probably grateful to people like the OP. The day will presumably come when technology advances to the stage at which some sort of electric car will be a viable alternative - whether by use of economic fuel cells, conceptual changes in battery technology or some currently unthought-of technology. However, such advances will probably only happen (or, at least, will happen more rapidly) if a reasonable number of people are seen to be buying into the idea of electric cars now, at a time when they are a useless option for many/most of us.
Kind Regards, John
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It does seem that we have got away from the question as to why it is tripping. With my old RCD on the odd time plugging in my PC can trip the power I assume because of it being a switch mode power supply.
I would assume the car charger is also switch mode likely using delta V charging technology.
The question is does it trip because of over current or does it trip because of earth leakage? If I was doing the job I would clip on the ammeter and set to show max current and wait until it trips and see what it uses.
I have considered an electric car I use within the family we have more than one car so having an electric for short runs would seem on the face of things to make sense. However the car is bought but the batteries are hired so unless you do a regular near max mileage per day the battery hire charge kills it. A milkman across the road to me uses a Kango van which is electric and it does well. In the winter he finds the power used to defrost the screen reduces the mileage and he has to return home with light right foot so as not to run out of power. It would seem the mileage claims do not include power used for heater. However it has halved his transport costs so for him it works well. He does not use cab heater to keep him warm only to demist and defrost.
I would assume the car charger is also switch mode likely using delta V charging technology.
The question is does it trip because of over current or does it trip because of earth leakage? If I was doing the job I would clip on the ammeter and set to show max current and wait until it trips and see what it uses.
I have considered an electric car I use within the family we have more than one car so having an electric for short runs would seem on the face of things to make sense. However the car is bought but the batteries are hired so unless you do a regular near max mileage per day the battery hire charge kills it. A milkman across the road to me uses a Kango van which is electric and it does well. In the winter he finds the power used to defrost the screen reduces the mileage and he has to return home with light right foot so as not to run out of power. It would seem the mileage claims do not include power used for heater. However it has halved his transport costs so for him it works well. He does not use cab heater to keep him warm only to demist and defrost.
BAS, you don't have the whole picture:
The car has a range of 350 miles - it has an onboard, 60kW petrol powered generator to provide power when the battery is exhausted. As you suggest above, because the petrol engine does not drive the wheels, only the generator, it can be set up to run much more efficiently than a corresponding engine in a normal car.
The waste heat from the engine (when running) is also used to heat the passenger compartment, so on very cold mornings, switching to engine for the first 1.5 miles warms it up and defrosts it nicely and avoids depleting the battery. You can also turn on the heating/demisting remotely when plugged into the mains, before you set off, which then leaves you with full battery capacity for travel.
This means that for my normal day-to-day travel I use no petrol at all, but if I need to go further, it's no problem, any more than it is for a normal car.
There was no altruism involved in my buying this car - my reasons were purely selfish and I don't pretend otherwise.
Fair enough - I think that's probably the only way it can sensibly be done at present. I (and I think BAS) was talking about purely electric cars.
As I wrote last night, when running off batteries it probably does provide an environmental benefit (hence 'altrusitic', if you wish). In terms of selfishness, have you attempted to do the long-term financial calculations, taking everything into account (including initial cost of car, replacement (or lease) of batteries etc. etc.)? If so, I'd be interested to know what the answer was.
Kind Regards, John
Not yet - the big unknown here is what the cost of replacement batteries will be in 8-10 years' time (the battery is purchased and hast an 8 year warranty). I'm rather gambling on prices coming down a lot and maybe capacity going up too.
The depreciation rate is also an unknown a the moment as this particular vehicle has only been available in the UK for 12 months and I've not seen any in the used vehicle market yet. I suspect that those who bought them intend, like me, to keep them for quite a while.
Dunno what you have, but JIC, pay very close attention to the Ts'n'Cs of that - I know you don't have a Tesla, but people who have allowed theirs to completely discharge find that they are responsible for the full replacement cost.
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