Indeed, but isn't that also true of many of the fuels used to generate electricity?Plus, of course, the price of petrol is mostly tax.
Kind Regards, John
Indeed, but isn't that also true of many of the fuels used to generate electricity?Plus, of course, the price of petrol is mostly tax.
Is he not saying that a 13.8kWh/49.3MJ charge of his car will enable that car to travel 40 miles - which, as you've said, is (presumably mainly because of the poor efficiency of petrol engines) far more than you would get out of 49.3MJ worth of petrol in a petrol-powered car?Interesting price equivalence - 1 MJ ≈ 0.28 kWh, so 13.8kWh = 49.3MJ = 1.44l, so you get less energy for your money.but a full charge on mine takes 10A for 6 hours = 13.8kWh, @11.34p/kWh=£1.57 = equivalent to 1.16l of petrol
What the efficiency of the electricity-generating process is, I don't know.
Kind Regards, John
No. Why do you ask that?Indeed, but isn't that also true of many of the fuels used to generate electricity?Plus, of course, the price of petrol is mostly tax.
I asked because it is a question to which I did not know the answer (I would think an acceptable reason for asking a question ). As I understand it, a pretty high proportion of our electricity is generated from oil or natural gas. Are they (at least, when bought by electricity producers) not subject to substantial duties and/or taxes (again, a question I'm asking because I don't know the answer - although I rather assumed that the answer was 'yes'!)No. Why do you ask that?Indeed, but isn't that also true of many of the fuels used to generate electricity?Plus, of course, the price of petrol is mostly tax.
A perfectly valid reason.I asked because it is a question to which I did not know the answer (I would think an acceptable reason for asking a question
I do not have the figures apart from -As I understand it, a pretty high proportion of our electricity is generated from oil or natural gas.
I cannot believe the power stations are charged (Edit - miscalculated) 150% tax on the coal, oil or gas supplied to them.Are they (at least, when bought by electricity producers) not subject to substantial duties and/or taxes (again, a question I'm asking because I don't know the answer - although I rather assumed that the answer was 'yes'!)
Yes, but VAT is only part of it. There's only 20% VAT on petrol and derv at the pump - but, as you say, 60% or more of what one pays is accounted for by duties/taxes of one sort or another.I do not have the figures apart from - 60% of the price of petrol and derv at the pump is tax. There is only 5% VAT on domestic gas and electricity prices.
Yes, but we are not charged duty on gas or electricity.Yes, but VAT is only part of it. There's only 20% VAT on petrol and derv at the pump - but, as you say, 60% or more of what one pays is accounted for by duties/taxes of one sort or another.I do not have the figures apart from - 60% of the price of petrol and derv at the pump is tax. There is only 5% VAT on domestic gas and electricity prices.
That will be interesting.I'll see what I can discover!
True. However, as I'm sure you understand, what I'm saying is that the absence of any 'taxes' at the point of sale to customers does not necessarily mean that taxes/duties have not been paid by someone (e.g. the electriciy producer) somewhere in the supply chain.Yes, but we are not charged duty on gas or electricity.
As above - if SSE had paid the equivalent of your 150% on its oil supply then, even though that would be 'invisible'to you (just as are all the other 'overheads' of electricity production), the bottom line for you would be much the same.Nevertheless I, the consumer, am charged 'only' 5% tax (VAT) on the prices charged by SSE but ... I am charged 150% tax (duty plus VAT (including VAT on that duty)) on the prices charged by Esso.
Indeed.Is he not saying that a 13.8kWh/49.3MJ charge of his car will enable that car to travel 40 miles - which, as you've said, is (presumably mainly because of the poor efficiency of petrol engines) far more than you would get out of 49.3MJ worth of petrol in a petrol-powered car?
Quite - which is why I wonder what point you were trying to make. If you were suggesting that an electric car is less energy-efficient than a petrol-engined one, then, depending on the efficiency of electricity generation (which I think is fairly high), the above suggests that you may be wrong.Indeed.Is he not saying that a 13.8kWh/49.3MJ charge of his car will enable that car to travel 40 miles - which, as you've said, is (presumably mainly because of the poor efficiency of petrol engines) far more than you would get out of 49.3MJ worth of petrol in a petrol-powered car?
Indeed, current electric cars are totally useless as the only car for the great majority of people.And what if, one day, I decide to pay a visit to someone which involves a 200 mile round trip? .... What if ... What if ... A car which takes 6 hours to on-board enough fuel to travel 40 miles? No.
Indeed.Is he not saying that a 13.8kWh/49.3MJ charge of his car will enable that car to travel 40 miles - which, as you've said, is (presumably mainly because of the poor efficiency of petrol engines) far more than you would get out of 49.3MJ worth of petrol in a petrol-powered car?
And what if, one day, I decide to pay a visit to someone which involves a 200 mile round trip?
What if I need to hop into the car and, with a short train interlude, drive without refuelling to Paris, or Brussels or Amsterdam etc?
What if I want to go touring in rural France?
They may be great for short journeys not straying far from home, but electric cars which need recharging from a mains supply are nothing more than vanity projects.
Fuel cells? Yes.
IC engines running at maximum efficiency and generating electricity? Yes.
A car which takes 6 hours to on-board enough fuel to travel 40 miles? No.
Fair enough - I think that's probably the only way it can sensibly be done at present. I (and I think BAS) was talking about purely electric cars.The car has a range of 350 miles - it has an onboard, 60kW petrol powered generator to provide power when the battery is exhausted.
As I wrote last night, when running off batteries it probably does provide an environmental benefit (hence 'altrusitic', if you wish). In terms of selfishness, have you attempted to do the long-term financial calculations, taking everything into account (including initial cost of car, replacement (or lease) of batteries etc. etc.)? If so, I'd be interested to know what the answer was.This means that for my normal day-to-day travel I use no petrol at all, but if I need to go further, it's no problem, any more than it is for a normal car. ... There was no altruism involved in my buying this car - my reasons were purely selfish and I don't pretend otherwise.
In terms of selfishness, have you attempted to do the long-term financial calculations, taking everything into account (including initial cost of car, replacement (or lease) of batteries etc. etc.)? If so, I'd be interested to know what the answer was.
Kind Regards, John
Dunno what you have, but JIC, pay very close attention to the Ts'n'Cs of that - I know you don't have a Tesla, but people who have allowed theirs to completely discharge find that they are responsible for the full replacement cost.Not yet - the big unknown here is what the cost of replacement batteries will be in 8-10 years' time (the battery is purchased and hast an 8 year warranty).
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