Electric Car Charger

[scarboroughmonkey]

Hi All,

I own an electric car, and got an electrician to install the charger for me. It is randomly tripping though and doesn't seem any why it would suddenly trip.

As my house is old, it wasn't RCD protected, so he insalled a RCBO, and put the charger on its own circuit. A 16A, Type C RCBO.

The charger is the standard one which came with the car, but I don't have the technical spec to hand.

Is it the law to have the charger on a RCD/RCBO? Or could the electrician change to it to a normal MCB? The charger is mounted on an external wall.

I would phone the electrican but he is on holiday for 4 weeks, so wouldn't mind knowing what needs to be done really. (I can't work on anything, so will get a pro to do it).



Thanks
Bob

 

[Spark123]

You must have paid him too much, given he can afford 4 week holidays!

What do the manufacturers say regarding the charger? What voltage does it output? The RCD will only protect the primary of any isolation transformer it is feeding, without more info isn't possible to say one way or another. If in doubt, can you upload some photos?

 

[scarboroughmonkey]

Yeah, I did think that when I knew he was going away for so long

I'm not sure on the output voltage, but the current is up to 10A on the output.

I don't know if its tripping due to the rcb side or the mcb side of the rcbo.

Does it need to be on a rcd? Or could it be put on a mcb to avoid the nuisance trips I've read about?



Thanks a lot

 

[Spark123]

Don't know without more information.

 

[scarboroughmonkey]

Sorry, did mean to put in my last post I will get the make and model tomorrow.




Thanks

 

[ericmark]

Unlikely you can use a MCB only as it following IET recommendations it should have TT earthing system.

You may be able to use a RCD which is higher than 30ma which would reduce the chance of tripping and even use a S type which has a delay.

However feeding a single device like the car charger one has to ask why would it trip. I would be using a clamp on meter and measuring the current it may be drawing more than 16A. I would seem there are setting with the chargers so they can be matched to the supply maybe not set correct for your supply.

In essence meters are required to test to get answers so the only option is to get an electrician to sort it out.

 

[securespark]

What type RCBO was it? Probably AC.

For car chargers the RCD type should be A.

 

[stillp]

Unlikely you can use a MCB only as it following IET recommendations it should have TT earthing system.

Can you provide a reference for that please Eric?

 

[ericmark]

I think it was in one of the regular emails I get as a member but can't now remember which of the many it was.

I was rather surprised as to me it would be dependent on where the car was parked. My first thought was if it was garaged within the house then why would it need TT.

However reading the problems with Dell computers and the Dream Liner aircraft to put a car on charge inside a integral garage would not be a good idea. Even my AA batteries one went wrong and melted the bay in the charger. Seems the NiMH battery still has some way to go. With a car not bought but hired.

If I find the notice I will return to say where it came from but two desk tops have gone down in last month so lost a load of emails. Seems book is £35 so I will not be buying.

Description

Also available as an e-book

Published January 2012

This Code of Practice aims to provide expert guidance on EV charging equipment installation, an important emerging area which is not covered in detail by the current edition of the Wiring Regulations (BS 7671) or the IET’s Guidance Notes.

Aimed at experienced electricians interested in understanding a wide range of equipment and systems available, it covers the specialised installation requirements of electric vehicle charging equipment in public, private and commercial locations.

The Code of Practice provides detailed on-site guidance and recommendations on all aspects of the installation from the origin of the electrical supply, through distribution and final circuits, installation of the charging equipment itself to the cable between the charging equipment and vehicle's electrical inlet. Also included are related issues of site layout and planning and subsequent inspection, testing, certification and maintenance of installations.

Exclusive guidance on latest electrical requirements

The Code of Practice includes an overview of all types of equipment, connectors and cables that an installer is likely to encounter and provides detailed references to all relevant standards and regulatory requirements in the UK – including, in Section 5, the latest guidance based on advice from the HSE on:

When to use TT earthing
Special precautions for connecting to TN-C-S (PME supplies)
The use of electrical separation, isolating transformers and RCDs
The need for a separate, dedicated electrical circuit for EV charging.

Written by industry experts

This authoritative and timely document has been developed by a committee of experts representing the key players across the EV industry:

British Electrotechnical and Allied Manufacturers Association (BEAMA)
Charging equipment manufacturers: Chargemaster, Elektromotive, Pod-Point
Electrical contractors: ECA, SELECT
Electrical Safety Council
Energy Networks Association
Energy Retail Association members: Centrica, EDF, E.ON, RWE Npower, Scottish Power, Scottish & Southern Energy
Energy Technologies Institute (ETI)
Government: OLEV, HSE, DCLG
Plugged-In Places scheme members: Charge Your Car (North), Source East, Source London
Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT)
The IET’s Technical Regulations team

Book readership

This is a hands-on guide of immediate practical use to trained installers. The Code will also be invaluable to administrators and managers specifying and procuring EV charging equipment and contractors. Finally, it will be essential reference for manufacturers of cars and charging equipment who need guidance on how to meet the requirements of electrical supply and installation standards.
Book contents

Scope
Overview of electric vehicle charging equipment
Charging equipment for Modes 1, 2, 3 & 4
Socket outlets and charging cables
Other variations in EV charging equipment design and specification
Arrangements prior to installation commencement
Supply metering
Adequacy of supply
Existing earthing arrangements
Simultaneous contact assessment
GPRS coverage
Charging equipment manufacturer’s instructions and requirements
Planning permission
Traffic management orders
Agreeing installation details with client
Physical installation requirements
Potentially explosive atmospheres
Location of charging equipment relative to parking space
Protection against vehicle impact
Location of controls and socket outlets
Free space around charging equipment
Ventilation and cooling
Avoidance of trip hazards
Avoidance of unnecessary obstruction
Labelling of BS 1363 socket outlets
Electrical requirements – General
Earthing and protective equipotential bonding requirements
Circuit design, cable specifications and dimensions
Protection against electric shock
Provision of RCDs
Isolation and switching
IP ratings
Lightning protection systems
Electrical requirements – Domestic installations
Electrical requirements – On street installations
Electrical requirements – Commercial and industrial installations
Inspection, testing and maintenance requirements
DNO notification

Annexes

A – Charging connectors and charging cable types

B – Example of DNO notification form

C – Checklists for domestic installations

D – Checklists for on-street installations

E – Checklists for commercial and industrial installations

F – Glossary

G – List of figures and tables

H – References

You can also purchase or get further information by contacting IET Standards on +44 (0)1438 767684 or Fax: +44 (0)1438 765563.

See also http://www.installeronline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Charging-ahead.pdf

It is interesting reading but not the report I read to start with. Clearly the earthing method is complex and until I have to I have no intention of buying the guide.

 

[securespark]

I too have been trained to "TT" installs for EV's and we have been told to use Type A RCD's too, in preference to any other.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

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Labelling of BS 1363 socket outlets
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Until I got to that I thought that it would not be applicable to the sort of vehicle which only needs a 10A supply...

10A for 8 hours ≈ 2l of petrol. 10l if you assume 20% efficiency. And they still pollute, it's just that the pollution is moved elsewhere.

 

[davelx]

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Labelling of BS 1363 socket outlets
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Until I got to that I thought that it would not be applicable to the sort of vehicle which only needs a 10A supply...

10A for 8 hours ≈ 2l of petrol. 10l if you assume 20% efficiency. And they still pollute, it's just that the pollution is moved elsewhere.

Not sure what figures you are using for electricity and petrol costs or where your efficiency figure comes from, but a full charge on
mine takes 10A for 6 hours = 13.8kWh, @11.34p/kWh=£1.57 = equivalent to 1.16l of petrol and that takes me on average 40 miles, equivalent to 155mpg.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not sure what figures you are using for electricity and petrol costs

Sorry - it wasn't costs, it was energy.

Petrol contains about 34.2MJ/l, so 10A x 8h =18.4kWh = 65.71MJ = 1.92l, hence "10A for 8 hours ≈ 2l of petrol".

or where your efficiency figure comes from

I believe that 20% is a reasonable overall figure for modern petrol engines.

but a full charge on mine takes 10A for 6 hours = 13.8kWh, @11.34p/kWh=£1.57 = equivalent to 1.16l of petrol

Interesting price equivalence - 1 MJ ≈ 0.28 kWh, so 13.8kWh = 49.3MJ = 1.44l, so you get less energy for your money.

Except....

and that takes me on average 40 miles, equivalent to 155mpg.

with petrol the poor efficiency bites you - good luck getting 155mpg.

More interesting - 20% of 155 is 31mpg, which is not outrageous if you're trundling around in a city, stop-start, etc. in an average car.

 

[JohnW2]

but a full charge on mine takes 10A for 6 hours = 13.8kWh, @11.34p/kWh=£1.57 = equivalent to 1.16l of petrol

Interesting price equivalence - 1 MJ ≈ 0.28 kWh, so 13.8kWh = 49.3MJ = 1.44l, so you get less energy for your money.

Is he not saying that a 13.8kWh/49.3MJ charge of his car will enable that car to travel 40 miles - which, as you've said, is (presumably mainly because of the poor efficiency of petrol engines) far more than you would get out of 49.3MJ worth of petrol in a petrol-powered car?

What the efficiency of the electricity-generating process is, I don't know.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Plus, of course, the price of petrol is mostly tax.